Side to side play in steering rack piston? Normal?

I’ve been trying to track down a front end vibration for quite some time. This wheel has been like this since the day I bought the car almost 18 years ago and Toyota has always insisted this is normal. Is that bullshit? I tore it down and the rack cylinder will move laterally side to side inside it’s sleeve. But it does not leak. Is this normal or possibly the cause of the vibration I’ve had for almost 18 years ?
I can’t upload the video but the tire will move if grabbed at 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock about a half inch from side to side on drivers side only

 

So you say your front wheels wheels can turn independently within 1/2 inch? How that truck can even drive straight? Unless I'm not seeing the same as you, that thing is not right.

 

There is a video now. It took me some time to figure out how to get one on here. The passenger side tire doesn’t move at all, only play on the rack is the drivers side.

 

Yes, I saw a video. That reminded me of my Yugo - Piece of $hit, my first car, where they could not do wheel adjustments because both wheels moved independently. Actually in Yougo the reason was not the rack but lower control arms were moving side to side. Still I can't believe any shop (even shade mechanic) would tell it is OK.

And sorry, at first when I saw your question and video I thought it was a Aprils Fool day, but then I realized you are really serious.

 

lol, yeah honestly when I first saw it I was concerned but the vehicle has done 290k miles at this point like this. I’m just worried if I install a brand new rack that it will have the same problem, because of what they’re telling me.

 

If one wheel moves and the other does not, it's not your rack. The part of the rack that the tie-rods attach to is a solid piece all the way through the rack. I would look at your tie-rods.

 

Never say never, I will try and post a video when I have a chance and it may make more sense. Attached a diagram.

 

So there are two separate issues. The "side to side " play in the rack is cased by worn bushings (on pass side) or worn or incorrectly adjusted steering rack guide (driver side). You should have new type of guide (bushing not roller type) so if there is a side to side play (actually it is up/down or front/back) on driver side the guide might not be adjusted correctly.

However none of these would cause move of the wheel like that. It will rattle nut that's it. The movement of wheels like that is caused by worn inner or outer tie rods.

 

Movement of the entire rack is a mount bushing issue.
Play with in the rack like you are describing is typically a worn "rack guide" on the driver side. While the rack "shaft" is indeed a solid shaft from one end to the other it can appear that only the driver side is loose. What is happening is the driver side of the shaft is flopping around, mostly up and down. The guide is loose and the pass side 360 deg bushing is still tight/er so the driver side looks to be loose. This starts with up and down play and progresses to over all slop. This play will show as 9 and 3 o'clock play at the tire when all other components seem tight.
Replacing the guide is a simple 15-30 min "on the truck" job. Toyota improved the guide and if this has been going on for 18 years it's a good chance you have the old style. Both styles are interchangeable and upgrading to the later style is still the same simple job. Both styles are a wear item but the newer one is far more durable.
Simply tightening the adjustment will only mask the issue for a while.
Lots of pics, a link to replacing just the guide and more rack stuff than you probably want to know.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/rack-pinion-service-tools-tips.312600/

 

I've been on that boat . There is a video showing exactly how the old style rack guide makes noise.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...k-or-rysium-build.457350/page-4#post-15417477

But regardless if that vertical movement on the driver side my steering passed annual inspection that is very thorough here in Poland (they will not let slip even tiny slope in the steering or suspension). So fo you can move the wheel like that it must be a tie rod.

 

I might be missing your point but...

OP says. I move the tire and the driver side rack shaft shows play. He draws a pic of where the play is, in the rack. He could have a tie rod issue in addition to the rack but no amount of love to a tie rod is going to fix play in the rack and rack play will show as play at 9&3 on the driver side tire.

It's also interesting to note that Toyota says up to about an inch of rotational play at the rim of the steering wheel is OK yet there should be no play in any of the steering components, say what.

 

This was not my experience. The play in the guide as seen on the video was multiplied by the leverage to the tie rod, so when I grabbed the inner tie rod even with the wheels straight the inner tie rod have significant movement up and down (at least 1/2 inch). However that play "up and down" does not transform to "side to side" (the geometry is simple for that). In other words no amount of "up and down" play in the rack will cause the wheel to move in 9-3 direction (otherwise any up-down wheel move like going over the bump would turn the tire and that would make driving almost impossible).

Toyota saying that play in the rack guide is "normal" is really the saying "our design was f###-up". It is not dangerous or making the truck not road worthy, just annoying when driving. Bushing solution that replaced roller is better (much more durable).

What I am saying the only component that might be responsible for 9-3 play are inner or outer tie rod. I mean there are other suspension parts that might cause that but it will be really bad (like LBJ, lower control arm, loose nut in outer tie rod connecting with the spindle) and very obvious to spot. That truck with this amount of 9-3 play should not be allowed on the road.

 

It shouldn't be too hard to track down. Just put it up on stands. Crawl under there. Have someone else move the wheel back and forth while you look and feel where the play is. Might even be more than one thing contributing to it.

 

I'm still confused with your "experience".
Look at the two statements bolded in your post above( expand the quote), you can't have it both ways.????
The video accurately shows what "amplified" guide play can look like at 3&9 at the tire. Play in other parts could also cause it. But again, he is seeing the rack shaft move in the rack body. He may not be seeing additional play in other parts but he is seeing it in the rack.
The up and down rack guide play will most definitely do this, has to do with the angles the motion goes thru. This is not a straight linear action. Seen and cured this a bazillion times. Again this is what the OP sees, describes and diagrammed.
Next time your under the truck notice the angle of the tie rod to the horizontal rack shaft, both up down and front to back. Picture the tie rod hanging down at a 90 deg. angle. Now wiggle the end of the rack shaft up and down. What's happening? The up and down shaft movement is imparted to the tie rod at a 1 to 1 ratio. The normal tie rod angle will reduce the apparent movement imparted to it but it is still there. It gets amplified at the tire from the relatively short length of the steering arm and the longer radius of the tire.

Nowhere does Toyota mention acceptable play in a rack guide, go back and read what I said.

FWIW Below shows play in a centered rack shaft with the guide completely removed. Less than 1/10", .043" to be exact. Same front to back and up and down.

 

In response to the general consensus I examined which type of rack guide I have and I have the older roller style. I ordered the replacement parts just Incase to upgrade to the solid guide. I will update with results when the parts come in tomorrow afternoon.

 

That's cool example wit 90 degree, but Toyota did not build the truck like that. The angle is actually much less - close to 10-15 degree. Now do calculations and you see that up-down movement of the rack transforms to marginal side to side movement of the steering knuckle. Simple sin and cos math.

Now if you don't want to do these calculations look at this from that point of view: the up-down movement of the rack that supposed to change the geometry is in relation to the steering knuckle, right? Imagine you have no play in the rack but you drive over a speed bump - that movement is is like 10 times more that the play caused by bouncing rack guide. If the video shows the play caused by play in the rack guide imagine what will happen to wheels when you drive over that speed bump: you will get "toe in" like crazy. Do you think Toyota design department missed that?

I am not saying that play it does not exists, but it is none essential to this exercise.

Now regarding my experience, my truck came from the factory in 1995 with roller type guide. Of course it was knocking like crazy after years but I have never had ANY play in the wheel, that would matter. Yes I did check it when the knock became annoying that I started to suspect my LBJ, so I lifted the truck and did full diagnostic. The only thing I found was that rack on the driver side going up and down with metalic knock.

Then in 2017 I moved my truck to Poland where it had to go through "car first registration" safety inspection. They don't do that by grabbing a wheel. No sir. They put it on the machine that twists one the wheel back and forth wile keeping the other locked. At the same time a mechanic is under the truck (in the channel) and visually (and by touch) inspects any suspension parts if they are giving up or not. And guess what, with 22 years old roller inside the steering rack my truck passed the inspection with flying colors. Here is the demo of the machines used in Polish inspection stations but be warned it's very painful to watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWvu6v6ZilE

So yes, I went through the same as OP: annoyance by the knocking, sweating like a whore in a church when I discovered that up/down rack movement, calming down after running full diagnostics and finally big relief when rattling stopped after replacing roller with bushing. But I never saw that much play on the wheel. His must be special.

 

FWIW, I’ve had steering slop problems for years now as well. Last summer I replaced both ITR and OTR, wheel bearings, lower ball joints, among other things.

My driver side tire moves just like yours as well. Passenger side is tight. I’ve given up and I’m assuming I need a new rack at this point.

 

Verdict; problem solved. If you experience no side to side play in your passenger tire and no play in the tie rods, but experience play in your drivers side tire. You could fix it by replacing the older style roller guide with the new bushing style guide.

 

I will add to make sure you get the adjustment correct. As I torqued the guide down you could see little by little the play disapear in the tire.