Single (and Two) Piece Driveshaft = Vibes....BE GONE!!!

Did you call or email any manufacturers? Instead of us telling you what we think going straight to the source would get the most accurate answer. Or we can be dicks and give you answers that have no relevance to your situation since the only information you provided was ’16 Tacoma.

http://www.4xshaft.com (Tom Woods Custom Drive-shafts)

 

Did you weigh both shafts? Wondering if you dropped any rotational weight going to the 1pc shaft.

 

DS vibes can exist for many reasons. Number one is worn parts or TIGHT parts which is only superseded by lifted vehicles that haven’t had driveline angles addressed.

So a stock DS has complimentary but opposite angles (2 joint shaft) where each rotation fights each joint at the other to keep all vibrations cancelled. If the angles are not equal and opposite the vibrations and occupations don’t cancel each other. As the angles are increased the oscillations increase and it becomes much harder to have each tune each other out. That is why higher angles usually go to a single joint at one end and a double cardan at the other. You keep the single joint almost flat (1-2deg) and the dbl cardan joints self align at whatever angle they are at.

Long DS’s often use a carrier bearing in the middle in different configurations. The carrier bearing helps to take the weight of the shaft and it can help to moderate the oscillations at each end. There are so many combinations and I am unfamiliar with the different gens actual setup I won’t go too deep into this and make it mucky. Basically you try to make one DS into multiple ones (in most applications) and support the end so that you in essence move the actual pivot point. This makes a static shaft with no change in angular plane on the one shaft. The other shaft does most of the angular change (the change in angle due to suspension movement).

This can get complicated real fast even though it is really a VERY simple concept.

Now going back to TIGHT parts. If the joints are tight in one end and free moving at the other small occupations may exist until the joint loosen up as they are not cancelling properly or moving equally in an angular sense.

 

Driveline vibes are caused by oscillations. If you don’t understand oscillations or what they are leave until google can explain it to you. Not trying to be a dick but angles and oscillations are what you feel when they aren’t being cancelled out.

It gets real annoying when people try to SKIP the learning part and go straight to the answers. If that is you then show up and leave your truck and wallet with me until I say you can have it back and don’t so much as open your mouth when you see the bottom of your wallet and nothing in between.

Most people want parts #’s only and then complain when Joe Nobody didn’t do it right. I have done my learning in part by making mistakes and then doing a ton of research to solve the issue. Think about this for a second. Those straight trucks you see with huge van bodies on them have a ton of space between the transmission and the rear axle. They use a driveshaft and carrier bearing setup just like Toyota. Some have more than 2 shafts. At the other end of the equation my old Jeep YJ had a shaft in around the 24” mark and had approx. 7.5” of lift. Both are able to go down the road without any vibrations when done right.

I will centre on my YJ because it is at extreme end of the equation and hits on many issues all at once. I started by doing a SOA lift. The axles are normally above the spring for many reasons which we will hit on later. On a spring over axle lift you weld a set of spring perches on the top of the axle and you gain lift simply by the difference in height of the old perches on the bottom of the axle to the new perches on top of the axle. In my case approx. 6”. I then added heavier springs designed to combat the spring wrap that is a consequence of SOA lifts which also added 1.5”.
So now I have huge lift and my angles between the DS and both the transfer case and axle are massive and not well matched. So the solution is to drop the transfer case slightly to “soften” the angle at this end. Now here is where it gets fun. You then match the rear DS angles to the axle and transfer case evenly. Actually you leave the rear pinion angle slightly low to accommodate the rear axle wrap or rotation under load or else under load the vibration will rear its head as the angle will not be complimentary.
Guess what? You have to do the same to a YJ front as it is also leaf sprung. You don’t need to address the spring wrap as much as it only is going to wrap in 4wd and it is sharing the load under these circumstances with the rear. In a Tacoma you aren’t leaf sprung or share the same geometry so I will leave that discussion alone.
So I lifted the YJ and did it on the cheap. Well here is the issue. High driveline angles and high joint angles meant I couldn’t keep u-joints in it for more than a few thousand KM’s. Plus I couldn’t drive faster than 100kmh (approx. 60-ish MPH). Well that is a lie, I could but the vibration got too bad as the oscillations are a factor of speed / rotations and are on a curve so they increase exponentially. One of my last outings with this setup I was late in getting home and was doing about 70-75MPH when the vibrations got stupid bad and something let go. I actually melted the cross’s of the u-joint off due to extreme heat. Now I will note I kept a grease gun in the Jeep at all times and would grease them before any trips over 30miles. So here I am with no rear DS so I pulled it and put it in 4wd and pulled it in FWD essentially the mile or 2 to the nearest hwy ramp and changed the joints in a Lowes parking lot.
Lesson learned……. high angles cause much more joint movement, more oscillations, more heat and less durability. So off to find the PROPER solution I had been avoiding. Now many Jeeps have no slip joint in the DS, the slip is at the transfer case with a splined sleeve going over a shaft inside the transfer case. So the solution to many Jeep DS angle issues is to tear into the TC and remove the slip and shorten the TC effectively giving you a longer DS with the slip in the shaft and not the TC. At the same time you go to a Double Cardan shaft. The DC shaft is like I have said many times is almost flat angularly at the single joint end. The reason for this is there is still some joint movement which keeps the joint from seizing. At the DC end the two joints self align with centrifugal force. Oscillations cancel each other and NO VIBRATIONS. Tens of thousands of miles later and joints were still working perfect without replacement.

There are a lot of things I am leaving out so it doesn’t muddle the learning. Like I have said it isn’t difficult. But there are a LOT of small things that can affect the end result (vibes or no vibes). It always starts with angles and oscillations. Often when you think it is fixed there is a variable that you missed. So you set your DS angle and then a few months later it re-appears. You might not have noticed your new rear springs settling which threw your DS angle off again. Or under heavy acceleration it vibrates but stops (or eases up) when you back off the gas because you have axle wrap under load changing your DS angles. All of these little things are really just another variable affecting those same angles.

 

Ah just read their site and they don't build driveshafts for 2wd or prerunners :'(

 

I saw that too but it really makes no sense if you have a short bed the length should be less than 75" and work just like the 4x

 

Driveline vibes are caused by oscillations.

I agree- even with a new drive shaft mine is now vibrating all the time and when I shift into neutral the vibes go away- back into drive and the vibes return.

Most people want parts #’s only and then complain when Joe Nobody didn’t do it right.

The Toyota dealership has had 3 cracks at it and can't seem to fix a Toyota. So I was hoping to find a single piece drive shaft I can bolt on as I think that is the solution to fix the rotational vibration.

Actually you leave the rear pinion angle slightly low to accommodate the rear axle wrap or rotation under load or else under load the vibration will rear its head as the angle will not be complimentary.

The dealer actually laughed when I mentioned spring wrap.
The dealer also told me that there is supposed to be 3/4" of play within the bushing of the carrier bearing.

At the same time you go to a Double Cardan shaft. The DC shaft is like I have said many times is almost flat angularly at the single joint end. The reason for this is there is still some joint movement which keeps the joint from seizing. At the DC end the two joints self align with centrifugal force. Oscillations cancel each other and NO VIBRATIONS.

This is where I am at now, I do not think the dealership will be able to fix the problem with the parts they have access to. So I am thinking a Tom Wood's single piece shaft with the double cardon joint and 1 ton U joint is the best option- will I need rear axle shims to get the pinion angle correct? Wonder if I can get a boot put on the slip yolk to prevent grease being flung onto the muffler and smelling/ smoking?

But there are a LOT of small things that can affect the end result (vibes or no vibes). It always starts with angles and oscillations. Often when you think it is fixed there is a variable that you missed.

So... if the single piece does not take care of all the drive line vibes- what are the other likely culprits?

Or under heavy acceleration it vibrates but stops (or eases up) when you back off the gas because you have axle wrap under load changing your DS angles.

Vibes were mostly during acceleration as well as a drone at 100 kph. The new drive shaft has less acceleration vibes- but give a constant vibration the entire time you are driving it- so it is worse than the old one.

Thanks for the info.

 

Hey brother, I'm about to order a 1 piece from Tom Woods, and was wondering if I had to do the measurements or if you had a specific part number that would work for me? In other words, would my measurements be different from yours? Thanks

 

Can you tell me if my '13 measurements would be the same as yours? Or if each truck is slightly different? Thanks

 

A) 1.808"
B) 3.661"
C1) 2.589"
C2) 2.589"
Driveshaft length (on level ground) is 67.5" for a DOUBLE CAB SHORT BED.
Get a double cardan input joint. This is key to eliminating vibrations!

Can anyone confirm if the length of the drive shaft is the same between double cab short box and access cab long boxes? If there is only two lengths of drive shafts- DC short box/ AC long box and DC long box (ignoring the reg cab as its single piece already) it should make for easy ordering.

 

This is all the info you send them?

 

For a 2nd gen double cab short bed 4x4 it should be the same for all years. That being said, it's quite easy to take that measurement yourself so it couldn't hurt to double check. I don't think the flanges changed year to year either so those should be identical too.

Pretty much. I paired that info with the picture/diagram from their website so they'd know what the measurements represented too.

 

Nice, hopefully I can stop buying patches to save up for this.

 

SUB'd for later.

 

Would a lift increase the needed length for the driveshaft? I guess in my mind it's increasing the distance from the rear end and transfer case more than stock.

 

Yes but only slightly. My measurements are for a Double Cab, Short Bed, 4x4 Tacoma with a 3" lift. I highly encourage you to take your own measurements.

 

Did you just measure from flange to flange on the shaft or flange to flange on T case and rear end ?

 

I'd call Tom Woods and they'll tell you exactly what they need. No guess work involved.

 

Speaking of drivelines I'll second Tom Woods my family and I have been using them for years.

My brother had a Samuri with Toyota solid axles under it. The stock samuri axles are passenger offset front and rear. Toyota rear is centered.

So not only did he have vertical angles to work with he had horizontal angles... nightmare to drive on the street but awesome in the rocks.

 

While the single piece driveshaft worked for you, there's many more people who bought a single piece ds and still have vibrations. The reason is because they exceeded the critical speed of the driveshaft, which, for that shafts you have is around 3000 rpm. You can do the math to figure out what highway speed you need to be driving for you to reach that speed, but for me it's around 60 mph (with 33s and 3.73 gears). See, because that driveshaft is so long, it tends to act like a jump rope at that critical speed and above. That motion causes the driveshaft to vibrate, and hence, isn't the end-all, cure-all. I'm glad it worked for you, but if you search around you'll see this phenomenon. Most driveshaft shop's will tell you that they won't make a single piece driveshaft for a Tacoma (short or long bed) because of how easy it is to exceed the critical speed of the shaft while on the highway = liability.

Here's a calculator for you to play with to see the critical speed:
http://spicerparts.com/calculators/driveshaft-safe-operating-rpm-calculator