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Single Stage Paint !?!

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by PSUnick, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. Jul 1, 2009 at 6:49 PM
    #1
    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    I was buffing my truck over the weekend, and when I got to the fender flares I discovered that the paint was single stage! :eek: I was a bit shocked to see this.

    Single stage is so old school I didn't think anyone used it anymore. When I was looking to buy the vehicle I noticed right away that the front bumper and fender flares had a matte shine, and upon closer inspection I felt that the paint was applied rather 'dry', but I never expected it to be single stage.

    Has anyone else noticed this about their vehicles? I discovered it was single stage because my buffing pad, which was brand new, turned red. The rest of the vehicle is base/clear. I will try to post a picture of it.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:13 PM
    #2
    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    I wanted to post some pics of different 2nd Gen Tacoma fender flares I took at my work. Look at the texture of the paint compared to the door and fender. It is clear that the orange peel is different (it is drier) on the flares then the panels.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:15 PM
    #3
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Its like that because thats the texture of the plastic flares.
     
  4. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:21 PM
    #4
    Pster

    Pster Well-Known Member

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    x2. Chris is correct, it's not a "cheap paint job", it's just that the same paint put on different surface materials will always have a different textrure or light reflectivity. The paint on the flares - since it's plastic - is likely a different chemistry as well. I noticed it on my truck as well.....no sweat. As long as it doesn't fade or peel, I am totally cool with it. What do you use to buff with? I want to buy a good tool....
     
  5. Sep 9, 2009 at 7:26 PM
    #5
    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    Pster I use the Dewalt 849. If you haven't buffed professionally, I don't recommend you do learn with this tool on your taco - you will burn through the paint. While learning most professional detailers have ruined paint jobs, including me. Also FYI I only use 3M detailing products, every training program or body shop I have been apart of has only used 3M.

    The red paint on my buffer wheel indicates without a doubt that the paint is single stage. The fact that I have identified it on other Tacomas shows that it isn't just my vehicle, and it is not a result of a repair or aftermarket addition to my vehicle.

    Chris I have to respectfully disagree with you that it is the texture of the flares. We all appreciate the advice you provide us on TW; I have significantly benefited from it. But I have professionally painted many plastic parts in my day. When a part is offered painted or non-painted, they have always been different parts, with the non-painted part having the texture you refer to. Now I haven't painted a Tacoma flare or bumper cover so I am assuming Toyota follows suit, but you can't paint a textured part and achieve quality adhesion; its impossible to scuff the areas between the textured bumps. I am not saying that all shops don't do this, because incorrect parts are ordered all the time and vehicles need to get out the door, but I am certain that the manufacturer doesn't suggest that, and doesn't build its vehicles that way. I am confident that when a textured part that is painted, without completely sanding out the texture, it will chip and/or delaminate more then then the part that doesn't have the texture. I am not talking about the chip guard on the bottom panels; this texture is much bigger, and this coating is applied during the painting process, and doesn't get sanded.

    Plastic panels can and do achieve the same level of gloss as the metal panels. Take a look passenger cars, their bumper covers achieve the same paint gloss and texture as their panels. Especially high end vehicles such as BMW or Mercedes. It is true that some paint suppliers require a flex agent be put into the clearcoat, but its affect on the gloss is minimal. It is my guess that Toyota has taken this route for the fender flares and bumper covers for our trucks for two reasons: One it is cheaper. The second is that with the reduction in gloss, these parts hide scuff marks better, which is a desirable characteristic on a 4x4 vehicle.
     
  6. Sep 9, 2009 at 7:32 PM
    #6
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    You may be right, But I was at a friends shop 2 years ago, and he showed me the 2 flares for Tacomas. They both had the same texture, though one was a more "Flat" finish (paintable), while the other was more "glossy". I have no experiance in body or paint work, so I had to take his word for it, and never checked deeper into it. :)
     
  7. Sep 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM
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    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    What was his opinion of the reason for the gloss difference between the two flares? They both were painted, correct? My guess is that single-stage requires more TLC to shine then base/clear, and the glossy one had been cleaned/polished/waxed more than the other.

    IMO the buffer wheel tells all. That was a brand new pad. I noticed the difference in the panels immediately when I went to buy the vehicle, but I thought it was just base/clear applied dry. I was wrong.

    Single stage paint is by no means cheap paint, its just cheaper than base/clear (product-wise just slightly, but labor-wise alot). Jeep vehicles where painted with single stage until the mid 90s, and I am pretty sure that most people never noticed. It just caught me completely by surprise to see it on a modern day vehicle.
     
  8. Sep 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM
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    Pster

    Pster Well-Known Member

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    You're the expert. I stand corrected.....:)
     
  9. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:03 PM
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    McJosh

    McJosh avidoffroad.com

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    I thought all factories used single stage for the whole vehicle. That's what I was told by a friend of mine and an employee from SpaceAge Paints.
     
  10. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM
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    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    Our Tacoma's have base/clear on the metal panels. Check out this pic; if it was single stage then the sandpaper would have red on it. The panel sands clear (it looks white actually), therefore it must be base/clear.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:23 PM
    #11
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    He said the Glossy plastic wasnt paintable, as it would flake off, and the Matt/flat plastic flare was ready for paint.
     
  12. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:26 PM
    #12
    McJosh

    McJosh avidoffroad.com

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    crap!! that's why my front bumper is chipping. :(
     
  13. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:40 PM
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    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Ok....I just got off the phone wiht my buddy, and he says the flares are the same. the ones that are painted get cleaned with some kind of cleaner (he told me the name, but I forgot) to promote adhesion of the paint. They are not sanded or anything, and the texture on the painted ones is the same as the non painted ones. The only other way of finding out for sure is to go out, and sand some paint off of my flare. Im not willing to do this.
     
  14. Sep 9, 2009 at 8:58 PM
    #14
    dexterdog

    dexterdog My pee parts itch

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    I agree, the black flares and the painted flares are one in the same.

    Also to the OP, I hope someday I can acheive the skill and balls to get a polisher like a Dewalt or that new Makita but for now I am happy learning with my PC 7424.
     
  15. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:20 PM
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    paintpimp

    paintpimp Well-Known Member

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    I hate to tell you that your wrong but you are, I am a body/paint man and the painted fender flares are the same as the non painted version, it is not orange peel it is the texture of the plastic, they are not like bumpers you get that are textered if not painted and smooth if they are, and they are also not single staged, it does not have the same amount of clear and with the amount of texture it does not get the high gloss, I get asked all the time if I can wet sand the orange peel out but you would have to sand it flat to get that.Also the plastic heats up alot faster especially with that meguiars cutting pad you are using, that shouldnt be used on plastic, or at least the speed turned way down, and also those red meguiar pad you are using will bleed color from the pad just like a new shirt, if you dont see burn marks on the flare then the red is from the pad, I can take pictures of my same pad and it has the same color until ive used it a few times. They also use a adhesion promoter on everything to insure proper adhesion,
     
  16. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:46 PM
    #16
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Whew! Glad to have this verified. :)
     
  17. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:53 PM
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    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    Chris I am surprised that he doesn't sand the fender flares before painting and relies strictly on adhesion promoter. I was never taught to do this and would never trust that in a repair that I performed. But to each his own.

    Paintpimp thanks for you input on this as well. I was taking a guess at the texture differences of the fender flares. I admitted that I never painted a tacoma flare and was taking a stab at the texture differences. I have seen it on bumpers as you indicated, and was applying that logic to the flares.

    Nothing gets past the fact that the red paint comes off of my flares when I buffed them. I too have been in the industry for years and am no rookie when it comes to polishing. I did not buff through the clear to get basecoat on my pad, and the red is not from the pad. I have used the same type of pads for the last five or so years. I know my equipment. The paint on my flares (and bumper) is infact single stage, I have no doubt. Please don't make me sand it :(. The fact that I observe the same finish characteristics on other Tacomas tells me that it is not just my vehicle with single stage paint, either.

    Would it surprise you that much to learn that it is single stage paint? It did me at first, but it isn't the end of the world.
     
  18. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:55 PM
    #18
    PSUnick

    PSUnick [OP] Lets Go State!

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    Sorry to keep this going Chris :)
     
  19. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:57 PM
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    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Not at all, Buddy. I love this type of discusion, as, sooner or later, we will all learn whats what. :)
     
  20. Sep 10, 2009 at 10:08 PM
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    paintpimp

    paintpimp Well-Known Member

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    I was putting zylon on my paint today and noticed that the flares on my 2010 have less of a grain look than my 05, I never understood why they used those but found out today that it is a way that they are saving money I guess, I will take pics of my 05 and my 10 and we can compare them, and I dont want to argue about the single stage but they are not single stagged, on top of me painting these parts everyday for Toyota, I asked a rep today and he confirmed that it is all base coat clear coat
     
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