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Slipping Clutch Post Replacement

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by pgm944, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Feb 11, 2019 at 8:28 AM
    #1
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    Here is my tale of woe...
    Toyota dealership did a clutch replacement at 102K miles because the clutch pedal would not go down. The only step they skipped from the Toyota "recommended" process was resurfacing the plate. "It looked fine and did not need resurfacing."

    At 110K miles, the clutch is slipping intermittently. Typically, it needed to be in 3rd gear with full acceleration, no AC. Dealership could not replicate.

    At 113K miles, the clutch slips in all gears under medium to full acceleration (except 1st).

    Dealership refuses to do any warranty work, as it now 24 months past the replacement date. Complaint logged at 18 months after they had the truck for 6 months to replace the frame.

    Any thoughts on what the dealership did wrong in the replacement?
    Any thoughts on what has failed after so few miles?
     
  2. Feb 11, 2019 at 8:52 AM
    #2
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    When you say "resurfacing the plate," I'm assuming you mean resurfacing the flywheel?
     
  3. Feb 11, 2019 at 8:53 AM
    #3
    Wheelspinner

    Wheelspinner Coco Customs

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    Lies. I’m sure there will be a few that want to argue but the flywheel should always be resurfaced or replaced especially with that kind of mileage
     
  4. Feb 11, 2019 at 9:04 AM
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    DLillest

    DLillest Well-Known Member

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    I would argue the fact that a complaint was logged at 18 months, well within the warranty period. If they didn't do anything about it then, seems like it could be their problem.
     
  5. Feb 11, 2019 at 9:06 AM
    #5
    BassAckwards

    BassAckwards formerly rjbiii

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    Problem is that they didnt resurface the flywheel, this is always necessary when switching to a new pressure plate
     
  6. Feb 11, 2019 at 9:08 AM
    #6
    DLillest

    DLillest Well-Known Member

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    Is there an additional cost to resurface the flywheel? If so, I could see them blaming you for not opting to pay for that additional step.

    If its normally included in a clutch replacement, I could see you having leverage in blaming them for not doing this step.
     
  7. Feb 11, 2019 at 10:39 AM
    #7
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    grrr..... yes, of course, I meant the flywheel. :(=me
     
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  8. Feb 11, 2019 at 10:42 AM
    #8
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    I was willing to pay, but the dealer said "no need." Resurfacing (or replacing) the flywheel is in Toyota's procedures for clutch replacement. I tried that leverage with them, no luck. Attorney General or legal action is next, I guess.
     
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  9. Feb 11, 2019 at 10:44 AM
    #9
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    Their warranty is 12 months/12K miles. So despite only having 11K miles on the new clutch, they are sticking with the 12 month rule. Explicit vs implied warranty?
     
  10. Feb 11, 2019 at 7:54 PM
    #10
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    If their warranty is 12/12K Months/Miles it looks pretty grim for you, not much of a leg to stand on. I do not think that not resurfacing the flywheel would have any cause of the clutch slipping. I have done many clutch replacements and almost never had to resurface a flywheel unless it was burned or grooved from a worn out disc. A burned flywheel will cause intermittent grabbing when letting out the clutch pedal.

    Has anyone looked at the clutch hydraulics and adjustment?
     
  11. Feb 11, 2019 at 8:47 PM
    #11
    b_r_o

    b_r_o fresh cakes

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    I agree with @Jimmyh, it shouldn't matter if the flywheel was resurfaced. If the pressure plate is strong (and torqued down correctly) and the friction disc is thick then everything should clamp together with no slipping.

    Did anybody mess with the clutch pedal pushrod length? Where does the clutch pedal engage? Down near the carpet, up high?
     
  12. Feb 11, 2019 at 8:50 PM
    #12
    Bishop84

    Bishop84 Well-Known Member

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    I worked at a shop that used to just buff the flywheel and send it on its way, I never actually saw any comebacks from that method, albeit wrong.
     
  13. Feb 12, 2019 at 4:55 PM
    #13
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    @Jimmyh & @b_r_o :
    Clutch engages at the same spot as before the repair. My daughter-in-law's brother is a toyota engineer and a gearhead. He can't figure it out either (via email). He sent me the specs for pedal travel, distances from floor board, etc. It appears correct - a PITA to do, as the carpet has to be pulled out for accuracy. When the snow melts, I'll put into the garage and recheck. my original issue is that the clutch pedal would not depress (rock hard) intermittently... then, I think, a linkage clip broke with the pedal not properly activating the clutch. I don't know if the hard force was the pressure or cover plate. I did get the old parts back. All the release fingers were intact & no scoring. No burning & plenty of thickness on the plate. Sooo.... I feel like I could replace the clutch and still be having issues. arrggghhhhh! Warranty fixes and recalls now number 8- costing Toyota a total of $20K.
     
  14. Feb 12, 2019 at 5:04 PM
    #14
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    Here is another reason to take them to small claims court, despite being outside of the time warranty.
    They failed to appropriately apply a known clutch slippage issue fix (TSB).
    From my daughter-in-law's brother who is a Toyota Engineer and modifies/fixes his own vehicles for fun:
    T-SB-0066-11 is particularly interesting. It looks like the countermeasure parts in the TSB are a clutch disc from a different suppler (so different friction material), and a pressure plate with higher spring force. Of course the tradeoff of the higher pressure plate spring force would be higher pedal effort, I think that’s why the procedure also includes replacing the clutch pedal spring but I’m not sure how effective it would be.

    Based on part numbers in NSH, it looks like the dealer didn’t apply the TSB when they replaced your clutch.
    See below:

    Date: 01/26/2017
    Source: NSH
    Mileage:102246
    Dealer: 20142
    RO Number: 0021943
    Service Advisor: STODDARD,GERALD
    Pay Type: CUSTOMER PAY
    ~|~CUSTOMER STATES CLUTCH PEDAL GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE FLOOR. CLUTCH HAS FAILED 3 TIMES IN THE PAST YEAR. PLEASE ADVISE. $120 DIAGNOSTIC FEE ~|~TECH DIAGNOISED VEHICLE WITH STICKING/BINDING PRESSURE PLATE ARMS AND BROKEN CLEVIS AT CLUTCH PEDAL MASTER CYL ~|~TECH REPLACED PRESSURE PLATE, CLUTCH, RELEASE BEARING AND MASTER CYLCLEVIS

    Claim #: Part Qty: 1 Part #: 3125004091 Part Desc: DISC ASSY, CLUTCH
    Part Qty: 1 Part #: 3121004083 Part Desc: COVER ASSY, CLUTCH
    Part Qty: 1 Part #: 3123035071 Part Desc: BEARING ASSY, CLUTCH
    Part Qty: 1 Part #: 3120435031 Part Desc: FORK SUB-ASSY, CLUTC
    Part Qty: 1 Part #: 3140404010 Part Desc: CLEVIS SUB-ASSY, CYL
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  15. Feb 12, 2019 at 5:14 PM
    #15
    megillet

    megillet Resident Badass

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    In the past, when I’ve done clutch jobs, a shim was placed behind the flywheel to offset the lost material (however much was machined (or lost with use) of thickness of the flywheel vs new). The second clutch job I did on the same truck where I didn’t do that (didn’t know), the clutch was toast after only like 20k miles. Clutch after that lasted until the truck was long gone.
     
  16. Feb 12, 2019 at 5:45 PM
    #16
    b_r_o

    b_r_o fresh cakes

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    I wonder if the pivot in the bell housing has worn a hole in the clutch fork. It will get jammed in there and the fork wont be able to move freely. That may explain the rock hard clutch pedal. Now its holding the clutch slightly open and letting the disc slip

    Remove the slave cylinder and set it aside so you can work the fork back and forth. It should move freely for a little distance, even though the release bearing is resting against the spring fingers
     
  17. Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 PM
    #17
    pgm944

    pgm944 [OP] Member

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    @b_r_o: Thank you! I'll check it out. There is a TSB on some brass part corroding. I will dig that out as well to look, as the truck was regularly parked next to a saltwater bay for a couple of years.
     
  18. Feb 12, 2019 at 6:22 PM
    #18
    b_r_o

    b_r_o fresh cakes

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    I think thats called the quill. The part of the case that the release bearing slides on. It may be sticky and not letting the release bearing move freely.

    Pretty sure the tsb talks about a new sleeve and a release bearing with a larger internal diameter to fit around the sleeve

    Since you mentioned the saltwater and the more i think about it.. i think we're on the right track with some kind of release bearing issue
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  19. Feb 12, 2019 at 7:43 PM
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    6 gearT444E

    6 gearT444E CEO & CFO @BPF

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    The chirpy release bearing was for the RA60 in the 6 cyl trucks. Don't remember any TSB for the R155. Your issue sounds with the release bearing or clutch mast/slave cyl as mentioned. I would start by removing the inspection cover and having a friend depress the clutch in and out several while the gear shifter is in neutral to make sure everything is cycling and traveling as expected. You could also remove the slave cyl as recommended and see if you can by hand move the clutch pivot fork, to me it sounds like it's binding up and causing the clutch to stay partially engaged.

    Not resurfacing the flywheel is a dildo move if they had it all apart at 100k miles, but not resurfacing would not cause the issues you are describing. As long as there was not any excessive wear on the OEM clutch disc, the flywheel should be fine.

    Here's one I ripped out earlier last year that was worn to hell, definitely in need of a replacement/resurfacing.
    IMG_6424.jpg
     
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  20. Feb 12, 2019 at 8:38 PM
    #20
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't compute as the pressure plate assembly bolts to the flywheel face. Putting a shim behind the flywheel does nothing.
     
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