Snake Oil? Proprietary Throttle Body Cleaners and Tranny Flushes? (like BG)

well yeah. come to think of it. when I bought the truck at 185k miles (now at 202k), my toyota tech buddy scrubbed the intake side of the TB while it was on the plenum. I just did a more in depth cleaning today.

 

and im still confused at how there is less vacuum at higher RPMs anywhere in the intake.

 

I would be curious to know this too.

 

Ok. I understand now what youre talking about. Yes, theres a greater ammount of vacuum in the plenum when the throttle is closed vs fully open. The pistons are constantly drawing air and combustion is constantly trying to recursively speed up that process but cant because air supply is greatly throttled. Thats when vacuum is created. It's in that vacuum/combustion process to throttleing that creates maximum vacuum when fully throttled and minimal when free flowing.

BUT, that kind of vacuum to rpm relation occurs only between the throttle body and the manifold. Which our FPRs aren't connected to. There isn't anything restricting flow on the resonator side of the intake except the air filter and the area/diameter of the smallest point in the MAF sensor cross section.

But ultimately. There's very little vacuum inside that resonator at idle from the engines suction that only increases with more draw and/or siphon from higher rpms and air flow..

 

A lot of very informative information within this thread for keeping the engine clean and its already 4 pages deep
I came here to add to the transmission snake oil questions but I think I will just post up a link to what I believe should be used for transmissions .
I have some Snake Oil for transmissions posted at this link that you guys can read up about or gather your opinions
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...th-pics-for-second-gen-4-liter-trucks.289913/
.

 

You got it. The relationship between throttle opening, RPM and vacuum is not linear. Of course, as RPM increases so does the amount of air sucked into the engine. However at higher engine speeds the throttle is typically open more. Like I mentioned, cruising on the highway with light throttle, higher RPM's will give high vacuum. Stab the throttle (same highway speed), vacuum drops. Take your foot off the gas and vacuum will be higher than just cruising.


"BUT, that kind of vacuum to rpm relation occurs only between the throttle body and the manifold. Which our FPRs aren't connected to. There isn't anything restricting flow on the resonator side of the intake except the air filter and the area/diameter of the smallest point in the MAF sensor cross section."

Exactly, this is my point. There is no usable vacuum present in the intake tube at any speed.
See for yourself, plug a vacuum gauge into the FPR hose nipple on the resonator box and go to town with the throttle, I have. You will not see any vacuum at any RPM with an automotive range gauge. Or just cover the nipple with your finger tip, you will feel nothing, zip, nada.

I will also toss this out for what it's worth. I have found the typical tests on a 3.4 PCV valve, suck, blow, shake etc to be a poor judge of the valves function. Many times the valve seems to pass the tests yet still lets too much vapor/oil mist thru. This contributes to apparent premature fouling of the TB/IAC.

 

but you haven't addressed the issue that the FPR is connected to the resonator, and that the resonator has "no usable vacuum present in the intake tube at any speed". as you said in the 3rd paragraph.

 

No fuel passes through the throttle bod, pretty much nothing but air and what makes it past the air filter. All fuel and any additives are injected via the fuel rails on the engine itself so no additive will ever come close to the throttle body. If you have an older vehicle with TBI that's a different story but I don't believe any taco's came with that setup. They were mainly in the 80's and done in response to the changing epa requirements.

Back in the day you had carbs, and the need to know how to adjust them from time to time. And points, remember them? I do In fact I remember adjusting them weekly and replacing them often in my first truck. Then came computer controlled carbs and the need to remove them entirely because omg did they not work for beans Then throttle body injection (tbi) which eh, worked well enough. And then what we now call fuel injection where all fuel is directly injected to the engine and air comes a different route.

 

I don't understand what you are calling an "issue". The FPR action is not modulated or controlled in any way by anything other than the minimal effect of relative altitude/atmospheric pressure.

 

posts #55 and #56 you and caligula are discussing the mechanics of the FPR relevant to their connection to the air intake, focusing on how vacuum to the FPR controls fuel pressure. post 61 you stated "I suggest you put a vacuum pump on a Taco FPR and watch fuel pressure as you add vacuum, it goes down." and then pointed exactly where the FPR connects to the intake.

it is in your statement in post 61, "I suggest you put a vacuum pump on a Taco FPR and watch fuel pressure as you add vacuum, it goes down.", that is confusing me. So here is my "issue with the FPR" question.

how can you say increased vacuum, from the intake to the FPR, decreases fuel pressure, and also say "There is no usable vacuum present in the intake tube at any speed" (as mentioned in post 70)?

And if there truly is no usable vacuum by the FPR in the resonator, how can the FPR function with atmospheric pressure (as you mentioned in post 74) if the only atmospheric pressure differences are based on altitudes?

and for either of those matters, at those points, why even bother putting a vacuum port on any FPR? Why not just give it a filter like a dashpot?

 

And please believe me when i say that I am only asking these question because they go against my years of understanding on the subject, and I don't want to be wrong since my customers depend on my knowledge when they ask me technical questions like im asking you.

 

@CodeSeven, i would not worry about your knowledge and understanding on the subject. Im looking at this the same way. What Dirtypool is saying goes against years of experience and training, not to mention practical application that i and others use and build upon on a daily basis. If i was to believe what was being said in this thread, i would believe that vacuum leaks are a conspiracy by Big Intake.

 

and another general question I have about intake vacuum. How is there not vacuum in the resonator from a siphoning effect from air passing across the port to the resonator? and at high CFMs? my MAF sensor is reporting as high as 350 CFM at around 2500 rpm.

 

Well this thread took a sharp turn...

 

Thanks for remaining civil.

"it is in your statement in post 61, "I suggest you put a vacuum pump on a Taco FPR and watch fuel pressure as you add vacuum, it goes down.", that is confusing me. So here is my "issue with the FPR" question.
how can you say increased vacuum, from the intake to the FPR, decreases fuel pressure, and also say "There is no usable vacuum present in the intake tube at any speed" (as mentioned in post 70)?"

I said vacuum applied to the Taco FPR will decrease fuel pressure, it will. I also said the same Taco FPR is used in other applications where that ability/function is used. It is not used on the Taco. I never said vacuum or fuel pressure decreases with RPM (assuming a good fuel pump).
When there is no vacuum present (Taco application) on the little hose, fuel pressure is regulated to the factory set spec and maintained thru varying fuel delivery demands. In the Taco application, it functions just like a household natural gas regulator or a gas grill, maintaining a set pressure.



"And if there truly is no usable vacuum by the FPR in the resonator, how can the FPR function with atmospheric pressure (as you mentioned in post 74) if the only atmospheric pressure differences are based on altitudes?"

Instead of engine vacuum, it sees atmospheric pressure or the lack thereof (higher altitudes). Less air, less fuel. The difference in atmospheric pressure from sea level to 10K feet is 4.6 PSI. You will need to understand the basic operation of a pressure regulator, how pressure differential on each side of the diaphragm makes it go. Google has plenty on that.



"and for either of those matters, at those points, why even bother putting a vacuum port on any FPR? Why not just give it a filter like a dashpot?"

Good point.
In the Taco application it is for fire safety. The diaphragm in the FPR has high pressure fuel on one side. Should that guy rupture or leak (it's a flexing/moving part) the leaking fuel gets directed thru the little hose to the intake tube where it hopefully would be burned or at least be contained to a degree. Better than having it drip down on that exhaust manifold.



Here's a post made by a Toyota Master Tech who "just" discovered this subject. It has some pics that might help in understanding the FPR function. Read all the text.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...e-swap-3-4l-5vz.354399/page-141#post-10193620
That thread has a huge amount of good diagnostic info but unfortunately also has a huge amount of unrelated banter between us posters who got well acquainted thru the ordeal.

 

That's another good question.
There is a trace amount, just not enough to affect the FPR. I mentioned there was not enough to be measured with an "automotive range gauge".
Pull your FPR hose off the resonator box and see if you can feel any vacuum, at any engine speed.

 

I did actually remove the hose from the resonator actually the other day when I was cleaning the throttle body. i didnt check for vacuum though since I was just trying to reset the hose and put the clamp back on. removing the hose made 0 difference in my engine idle while I had it disconnected. though that was weird. but makes better sense now.

even accidentally touched 1 of my spark plug cables while it was running and got zapped

but this is good info. and does this apply to all vacuum based FPRs or just our taco and the like?