SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Simple.

Most, if not all, 3rd world country's don't add as much crap to there fuel blend, when they refine it down for there own use.

Simple logistics,,they have the oil fields.

Keep them crude boats comin,,we still need em so we can make our own crap gas.

Biggest vehicle theft in 3rd world country's?,,one guess. Any guesses as to why?.

 

Argh. Gotta rant again. Just called the mechanic and I'm worried that they still might not have looked at it, and it got there Tuesday morning! Granted, maybe it's my own fault by saying time was the least of our concerns compared to quality and cost (why do I blab stuff like that when it's unnecessary?!?!), but still, at the end of day 3, I would have thought we'd have some little speck of news by now.

I just called and they said the head guy looked at it for a few hours today, but had to leave early and the 2 guys that are there have no idea what he found. I want to believe it, and really can't do anything about it anyway, but it seems like that could also be their way to avoid telling me they haven't done anything yet. I suppose all I can do is take it at face value and hope that even if it's not true, maybe they are sooooo busy because they do great work. Just sucks, cuz I don't want to bug them by calling constantly, and yet I am SOOOOOOOO eager to hear what they find! I even brought them a 12 pack of good beer when Taco was towed in....I wish all you dudes lived in Portland and could have gotten together over a weekend and brought our Taco back to life......would have totally provided the brats and beer, all you can eat and drink!!!! Hell, I'd even split the $5K among everyone, considering we would've spent it anyway!

Alrighty, gonna go make cookies and drink some whiskey, and try to stop stressing something I have no control over anyway!

 

Jen,

You probably should prepare yourself for a wait till sometime in early January. A week before Christmas is unfortunately bad timing to expect a full engine rebuild from a small shop. They probably dont want to dig in fully and have to leave a half built engine on the stand while waiting for machine shops & parts to come in. They are probably going to put off the heavy duty work till the end of the month, most likely.

EDIT: Good thinking on the beer. My friends that are pro's say that a box of donuts or a case of beer goes a long way to engendering good will on behalf of a customer. I would take them some donuts when you go pick up the truck as well. Its those little somethings that motivate a mechanic to just give your car the little extra attention that a faceless customer may not receive.

 

So you have been to how many dealers? I know I get a lot of flack for this, but I get so tired of the dealership bashing and people trying to claim such a huge amount of dishonesty in the dealerships. Your theory about who works there is WAY off man. I have worked in dealerships for over 20 years and if you want to turn wrenches in the main shop, you have to have a heck of a lot more than just basic knowledge. Most dealerships I have been to won't let you even fill out an application to be a tech unless you have a minimum of 2-3 ASE certifications, which require that you have 2 years of work experience to get them. That and the dealerships pay thousands of dollars every year to keep sending their techs back to train on the newest tech that comes out. In a 1 year period I would spend an average of 3 weeks at the training school, not to mention the hundreds of hours of online courses I had to take so that I could keep my paycheck going. Sure, not every tech out there is perfect, but not every person out there is perfect in THEIR job either. I bet you have made mistakes at jobs you have been at. It happens. We are only human. I have been doing this for over 30 years now, and even I make a mistake and miss something. It happens. Techs are humans too.

I just deleted about 2 paragraphs that were a bit on the bitchy side, but I think the above gets my point across. your theory that 70% of the dealerships are like that is just utter crap.

 

I agree with moco mostly, this is why I left the dealership I worked for and actually got out of the auto industry all together.
I started working at a pontiac/buick dealership at 16 while taking auto tech at a vocational school.
I was working for minumum wage as a lube/brake tech. They started handing me other work when we would get short staffed that progressed from brakes to tune ups to a bunch of 2.2 head gaskets, 3.8 intakes etc. All while making $4.25 an hour- being a dumb ass kid I stayed for 2 years doing that, once I finished school I asked the owner for a raise comparable to most of the other techs ($13-17 hr range at the time), he offered me $9 hourly or $10 flat rate- I asked why not $13 flat like the least experianced tech on board- his response was that the guy had a family to support and im still living at home with mom and dad..
I ended up going to a job fair 3 weeks later to apply at a state ran correctional facility which started out at $12.50 hr- got hired in after a host of screenings and tests 5 months after asking the dealership for a raise.
When I put my two weeks in the owner had the service writer offer me $14 hr flat to stay- health care was $80 week there at the time and the plan sucked not to mention the feast or famine part of flat rate- I chose the state job with $7 a week healthcare cost and will have been there 16 years this coming march.

 

Bill,

I have absolute respect for you and you have helped me with problems with my truck in the past. As far as Im concerned, you are one of the most knowledgable folks on this site.

However, I think that your experience is based on the way things used to be. The industry has changed quite a lot over the last couple of decades. What you described above was the norm when you were breaking into the industry but today's environment is different.

 

Personally, I've worked at none. Here's what I base my opinion on all in the last 2 years:

I.) My neighbor who worked as a Service Writer at a Toyota dealer for $11/hr in NC just a couple of years ago

II.) A buddy of mine in our local car club who currently works as a Mercedes tech (his is the most positive view of the industry)

III.) A long conversation I had with the tech that rebuilt the trans (under warranty) on my Mustang during an extended test drive

IV.) An acquaintance of mine that works at a Ford Dealer as a Service Manager - one of the very few dealers that works on an hourly system NOT flat rate

V.) My conversation with the Service Manager at the local Acura dealership - who by the way offered me a job as a tech even though I have no experience working professionally as a tech. (I was looking for a part time job at the time to supplement my regular day job which is COMPLETELY not related to the auto industry)

So, yes, you're right, Ive never been employed by a dealership - but I am interested in and know far more about what goes on in a service bay than most customers do.

 

This is a bad week of trying to get work done...I sent my SIL POS 90 4Runner to a local shop two weeks ago to pull the intake, change out the leaking right valve cover gasket, fix a blown crank seal (oil was pouring out), and find and repair a bad wire to an engine sensor, most likely caused by stretching the harness to change the LEFT valve cover gasket. I stopped in Wednesday and the mechanic was trying to order a new puller for the front of the motor...he broke his on my job and I felt terrible, but that is how the business goes.

As for dealerships and high labor costs. They have a VERY high overhead rate, need to update tools, manuals and software every model/year change and are expected to do factory quality work on every job. For a dealership to survive, service needs to be a profit center. (for the sake of full disclosure, I spent last weekend with a old friend/neighbor in Texas who used to run a Pontiac/GMC dealership)

As for the small shop, they need to manage their bays and ensure they can pull the engine, pull the truck out while the machine work is done so other jobs can come in and be worked.

Time to sit tight, prepare for the holiday and wait for the truck sometime in mid-January. The ordering of parts can't even START until after the block is boiled clean and parts inspected.

Oh, and why am I not working on my SIL 4runner? This is crunch time in my little engineering world. I am busy reviewing plans so multiple plants around the country can shut down today at 5 pm, turn the keys over to maintenance/construction and do an intensive two week overhaul. While the production workers are making merry, the shut down/turn around teams are pulling double shifts and hoping nothing goes wrong.

Howard

 

Bamatoy, I'm really sorry if my comments about my local dealer offended you. I am sincerely grateful for all the great advice/lessons you've given me throughout this thread, because it's obvious you know what the heck you are talking about, and no one is born with that knowledge - they work their asses off to acquire it, like you've described. And for you to share that with folks like me on this forum, simply out of the kindness of your heart, is incredibly generous.

I did have a truly awful experience w/that dealer, but like I said, I definitely don't think all dealers are bad AT ALL. We've had many, many very positive experiences, dealing with true professionals who know what the heck they're talking about (like you!). Just like any other industry I suppose, kind of like you said, no one is immune to making mistakes, regardless of the field they're in - and this particular dealership just happens to be making lots of them lately, in my opinion anyway. But I still have lots of respect for the other dealers in our area, and am grateful they are there - pretty sure we'll need them again in the future as Taco continues aging!

 

Hetkind, sorry to hear about your 4Runner! You're probably right about the time delays we'll both have, due to the holidays coming up. The guys that have our Taco aren't rebuilding our engine, but rather putting in a reman of it. Last time I talked to him about it, he'd said they had one of our engine in stock, but it needed to be assembled. But then too, surely they'll autopsy our engine before we pick up, cuz they'd assess core charges pending it's condition. Not sure if they'd autopsy it before putting the new engine in though?

I'm grateful that we don't HAVE to have Taco back in a certain time frame for commuting, it just makes life more of a PITA for 2 people to share a Civic that could very well be at the end of it's life. But mostly I am just sooooooooooooooooooo eager to hear what they think caused the problem, whether there's some link between the 2007 and current incident (surely there's gotta be?!?), and what the extent of the damage is inside the engine. After speculating over those things pretty much 24/7 for the past 3 weeks, it will be a huge relief to finally have some definite answers.

Do you guys think it's too demanding to call before they close each day to ask how things are going? Or maybe stopping in early next week to take some Christmas cookies to them? They are definitely a small shop, I think 3 guys, and they've got phones, ordering, plus the actual work itself, and I'm sure a million other things to do that go into running a small business. The last thing I wanna do is annoy them (and take them away from Taco by calling a bunch!), and yet I also wanna make sure we stay on their radar and find out if any progress is being made. He'd said his 1st step was going to be pulling the codes, then he'd move on to looking at other possible causes, like cat. convertor, fuel injectors, etc. Maybe I'll get some news on the codes today.....fingers crossed!

 

would you want someone like you hovering over your shoulder at work constantly making you feel rushed? don't make them resent having you as a customer.

ps - I thought you were going to tell him to replace all the injectors with the new 4 hole upgraded versions? this is something I would not take no for an answer on if I were you and insist he do this weather he thinks your injectors are ok or not. the 4 holes are much more efficient and with a new engine its smart to upgrade to the most efficient injectors if you can, not to mention it might even get you an extra 1 mpg to boot.

 

Nope, I wouldn't like it at all. You made some excellent points Keakar, glad I put the question out there! I know I tend to have higher than average expectations on a lot of things, so sometimes I need other people to put me in check, so that I don't overstep my boundaries and cause them to rush the job just to get rid of the crazy missing electrode lady!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the honest feedback man!

He said he could replace the #3 nozzle and clean the rest, or just clean them all AND then still possibly wind up recommending replacement of #3, but that he really couldn't "test" the function of #3 without cleaning it. Honestly I chickened out on mentioning the 4 hole version - I should probably do that, but that means I gotta call and be crazy lady! You think it's worth it? It's tough, cuz I'm trying to carefully balance between showing him we trust his approach to stuff like that, with asking for stuff you guys have said that sounds like a great idea, like this, plus an upgraded sensor that someone suggested on here. You know, avoid micromanaging his approach to the work, while asking for specifics that are worth speaking up for. Basically, !!!

 

i'll send you a bill in the mail for the consultation fee lol

fill the time by cooking some pralines and Christmas goodies, and make some apple pie moonshine, its the bomb for the holidays OMG!

https://www.google.com/search?q=app...crosoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl

and merry christmas

 

Whoa, just pulled up that recipe and OMG that does sound good!!! Thanks, yummy!
Merry Christmas to you too!

 

It was towed to a mechanic Tuesday morning, and they're going to try to diagnose & repair whatever caused the hole in the piston, then put a reman'd engine in it.

 

Thanks!

 

Oh the 4Runner really isn't a big deal, it hasn't been a daily driver in years, and in fact, had been parked for the last six months in my wife's sister's driveway, while she drove my 68 dodge pickup (automatic) while her surgically repaired achillies tendon healed.

Unlike your situation, where you are short a car and trying to make do, we have a good supply and will have my daughter's Accord parked in the back for a year while she goes on a one year deployed assignment with FEMACORPS.

The 4Runner went to the shop this month because the lease ran out where it was parked and it had to move anyhow...and since this mechanic just did a great job getting my neighbor's 87 FJ62 Landcruiser back up and running, after being down for a few years, we thought he could do the same to the 4Runner.

Give the shop a break, they are working as fast as they can, and I suspect, they will fight broken bolts, seized exhaust nuts, frayed wiring, puddles of grease, bad radiator hose clamps and the like...

Howard

 

Definitely will do that (give 'em a break) - thanks for the advice! Sounds like your 4Runner's in good hands, glad to hear it!

 

He called! Not a ton of news yet, but definitely some news which I certainly appreciate. He said our cat. convertor is fine, a little low flow but within specs so not the culprit. He said that coil pack (igniter) was fine, so it's not that. He said that plug was the right heat range, so not that. So, he said their next steps are going to be to pull the head to see if exhaust is the problem, or if carbon build up in the cylinder head is the problem, and also they'll start cleaning the fuel injectors.

Keakar, I did mention the 4 line, and he wasn't super familiar w/them, so ultimately since we want to do whatever he recc' (because of warranty), I just said do whatever you think on the injectors. He's gonna clean #3 then potentially replace it as well, so that through cleaning it we'll be able to see if it went wonky on us, and know if we found the cause or not.

The only really weird thing is he said their were no codes, and he specifically said they didn't pull the battery cable. And local Toyota dealer said they didn't pull them. I'm confused. I know we didn't, and I know we had CEL at least 2x in past 6 months - hmmm. Wonder if Toyota would have disconnected the battery for some reason? I really had hoped they'd give us some insight......

He said it was definitely preignition, not detonation.......

 

This is where I have to say first off, sorry if I came off a little crass. I admit that I do take offense to those who disparage the dealers because I have worked in them for a long time. See, your situations, and many others who comment about them are the exception to the rule. Do you REALLY think that a dealership could keep it's doors open if all that you are saying is true? It would be impossible! Hell, it is hard enough to keep the doors open in a LEGITIMATE shops. Moco, to say things have changed since the way I am used to it being is a bit off. It hasn't been but just a couple of years since I left the dealerships, not a couple of decades. lol. I still work in the industry, and I have about 90% of my close friends who are STILL in the dealerships. Not to mention that I have had most all of the dealerships I have worked for ask me to come back. I am quite proud of the years that I spent turning wrenches, and instructing students while I was working for GM. The dealerships all around STILL turn out better techs than the typical mom and pop shop does. That's just the cold truth there. Look at the numbers. How much money does an average shop spend in keeping their techs trained on the latest in technology? Nearly zero. Most shops simply expect them to learn and adapt as the new tech rolls into the shop. When I was working at the dealerships the average amount of money spent on training for EACH technician was around $10k each year! So for a dealership of 20 techs, that is $200k each YEAR to keep them trained in the latest. As for your friend who earned $11 per hour as a service writer, did he also mention that the service writers get bonus checks based on work load, and actually average anywhere between $40k and $140k per year? As for the Ford guy, I'll be honest, I will NEVER work for a dealership that pays straight hourly. I have seen them run that way, and seen the quality and productivity of those shops. They are the lowest in the industry.

Now Knuckle, I see that you got treated like crap evidently from the one boss there that you had, but bailing on the industry was not perhaps the best idea just because of one experience. If that were the case then most EVERYONE would have jumped career ships in their life. I promise you that your situation was an exception, not the rule. In the many dealerships that I worked at, the lube techs worked hard, and were afforded plenty of training opportunities to advance. One of my best friends was a lube tech when he got started at 17, and by the age of 30 was the shop foreman! He worked his way up. I started off turning wrenches for $8 per hour, and through my career built myself up to $26 per hour. Averaging about 60 flag-hours a week, I made some decent money. And there were others who earned more than I did.

Your comments did not offend me in the least. I am sorry if I made it seem that way.

Not unusual for a code to clear out. Many times if the fault does not reoccur within 5 ignition cycles, the code can be eliminated from memory.