SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Been doing ok until this morning. Grandbaby in the hospital. Looking like the doctors are going to do open heart surgery. She has had a valve problem since she was born. They had hoped she would do better after she had gone home (Small valve problems are evidently not uncommon in newborns) but she is getting worse. Fluid in lungs now as well. Kinda out-of-sorts right now. Been finding myself reading old threads and just wandering around trying to get my mind off things.

 

Could be Steve, considering it's one of the few that have yet to be replaced!!

 

Bama, I am so sorry to hear about your granddaughter! How awful. Must be tough to really know what to do except wander around when something like that is on your mind. Thinking of you and sending best wishes for her speedy recovery.

And thank you for looking back in on the thread, it's been really nice seeing you around again lately. I so much appreciate all of the helpful input you've given me from day one!!

 

Gen
Got your PM, I too have a life outside of post whoring on Toyota forums but back now, for a while.
Near as I can recollect, everything relevant to the issue has been checked and rechecked so the solution will likely be something on the order of "Checkum Systemi Partus Correctus".
Good luck to you and the new guys.

 

Sooooo...

The fuel pressure test revealed some interseting results. The fuel pressure is suppose to remain above 21 psi after 5 minutes, which it failed to do. Fuel pressure was dropping down to about 18 psi after a few minutes, and on one occasion it went to 0 psi.

Curiously, I squeezed the fuel return hose and watched the pressure increase to 85 psi instantly and I released the hose. After we shut off the engine, we realized the pressure was holding above 40 psi now. We are suspecting the fuel pump check valve was stuck until the drastic increase in pressure dislodged it.

Maybe fixed? We will see.

Fingers Crossed.

 

Jason, thank you so much for the update, and for looking at it so soon, we are very grateful!

You and Jay's theory about the check valve and vapor lock, and the logic behind it make sense to me, definitely. Hopeful and looking forward to seeing how she behaves for you guys tomorrow! Thank you!!

 

Pressure dropped again. Its intermittently doing it.

 

Darn that truck! Just will not be consistent with it's issues! I think you guys are on a good track here though.....

Thanks for the additional update!

 

jay you need to look real careful under the hood and see if you see this guy in there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWvNDCcxPU4

slap him around all you want and he still gets up laughing and causing problems, I think that's her problem

 

Is that the same dude that was filling her power steering reservoir?

 

<<< slams his fist down on the desk!,,but no happy dance just yet.

A rebuilt pump could still have a bad check valve,,depends on the rebuild and how far it was rebuilt.

Even if it is or isin't the problem, this seals the deal for me when I need a new pump. It's going to be in a heavy cardboard Toyota box with heavy Toyota plastic bag surrounding it, factory tags,,all that. To many evil stories surrounding aftermarket pumps, now and recently.


Sorry to hear about that Bama, know what your going thru. Younger sis was born with a hole in her heart and immediately had to go under the knife just minutes old. It was tense. It all worked out thank god. She's working towards her nurse degree today.

 

OK, so pump was replaced in late Jan, with a Denso bought at a local auto parts store, just FYI for everyone. It does seem possible to me that we could have gotten a bad pump, considering the luck we've had throughout this crazy journey! Sounds like we are in good hands though - sounds like the plan is to continue testing/investigating before making the final call on the pump. I like that approach!

Question - I was talking to a neighbor about the pump being a possible culprit, and she mentioned that when hers was replaced, her husband told her to make sure their mechanic bled the fuel lines when they did it. Then another neighbor speculated that the reason they'd do that (bleed the lines) would be to avoid air bubbles - sound right? Then they both speculated that maybe that's what our issue is - that maybe when the engine was put in, they didn't bleed the lines perhaps? I'm not even sure if any of that makes sense, because I've never heard of bleeding fuel lines. Does any of that sound logical to you guys?

PS: I agree, I think we have that little evil green gremlin living in our Taco, and yes, he probably was the one that was messing with the power steering fluid

And I'm starting to agree with Mod's point about it not being worth taking chances on parts from anyone but the dealer when it comes to stuff like fuel pumps. I will DEFINITELY feel that way if it indeed winds up being the pump!!

 

Kids are sleeping, and now I'm thinking.

I am curious about the old pump's check valve. For this mystery to make sense to me (with the diagnosis being the fuel pump check valve) then the old original pump and the new pump both must have the same problem. This seems very unlucky / unlikely to me. So we will search for more proof.

I suspect we might be testing the fuel pressure on Jay's (Noahpete's) vehicle.

 

Here is what went on today, pics and tests and everything is in chronological order:

1. Removed spark plugs, all look new (and are), confirmed they are not wet with fuel or not full of fluffy black soot and/or all look uniform



2. A leak-down test was performed with the results as follows (banked):
Cylinder 1 (5%), Cylinder 3 (20%), Cylinder 5 (15%), Cylinder 2 (5%),
Cylinder 4 (20%), Cylinder 6 (30%). 5% is considered very good sealing and is what a brand new 2015 Toyota Tacoma should show if leak-down tested. In the cases of the cylinders that are above 5% air can be heard in the intake plenum through the throttle body. Air in the intake manifold/throttle body indicates air is getting past the intake valves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBYAYJmrIVY&feature=youtu.be

Here is the FP testing setup: pretty sweet huh?



3. Fuel Pressure Testing: First point is that at all times no matter what else is going on with fuel pressure when the truck is running the fuel pressure is 57 psi -- always. There are two scenario's that we have witnessed. a.) fp drops immediately after turning ignition off to 30psi then 15psi after 5 mins then 13psi after 30 min. --and-- b.) fp drops immediately after turning ignition off to 40psi then 37psi after 5 mins then 27psi after 30 min.

Pic of fpg with engine running - always looks like this -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is one full warm up cool down starting cranking test:

The truck was driven for about 15mins (around the long block about 3 times)
this is the pressure right after the truck was shut off



Intake air temp at time truck was shut off after long drive was 99 degrees. I'm interpreting this as underhood temperature



Then Time passed --------- (twiddling thumbs for 30 mins) ----------
------ ok, done contemplating the meaning of life ready to start it now

Here is the FPG when I was ready to start it after the hot soak



And here is a pic of the data list when just before the start after the hot soak, the Intake air temp (underhood temp) has risen



This is the video of the crank and start after the hot soak test. The truck has a bit of unevenness starting, a little difficulty but I don't think this is the worst it gets? The fp appears good. The sound is like a couple cylinders fire then the rest it just sounds a little struggled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx7BjiqMARw&feature=youtu.be


I'm still not sure where I'm going with Taco. I think I don't know enough to find what is wrong yet, just collecting data and getting familiar with the truck. This is the point where I just keep testing stuff and wait for some good luck to come Pretty fun project so far

 

Great info and pics! Could an injector occasionally be sticking slightly open, leading to the fuel pressure drop and dumping fuel? That might not show up on the plugs.

 

NoahPete, wow. We are impressed beyond words. After we saw your post, we were seriously in awe of how thorough and detailed you were in gathering information, keeping track of it, and sharing it here. Thank you so much for putting such care and attention to detail into diagnosing our truck, I feel like we struck gold right now!!

Your second point, about the leak down test results - should we be concerned about the function of the engine? I know you said 5% is perfect, on a brand new Taco, so I'm guessing there's some grey area between perfect and destroyed that's acceptable compression - is that right? By the way, I am going to gather what specifics I have about the components of the engine - what was new vs. machined/reused, etc and will post it as soon as I have it! Back to compression - I vaguely remember learning something about how you don't want too much variation in the numbers among the cylinders, is that right?

So regarding the excessive cranking, it seems like the million dollar question is why the 2 different rates of fuel pressure dropping when the truck is shut off, right? And does it seem normal to you guys that the PSI is 57 when it's running ALL the time? Gotta admit, I don’t know what to make of those fuel pressure results, but I am just very grateful that we have experts collecting/analyzing this info, and will leave it to them to determine the next moves.......

And my final comment this morning - how did I get this lucky to have NoahPete working on my truck now?!??! Did everybody get that last part of what he said!??!? He called working on ridding our Taco of the evil mystery demon a "pretty fun project so far" - definitely struck gold here guys. THANK YOU NoahPete!! You're gonna get this thing figured out, if you keep taking such a thorough, careful approach like you are!! Thanks man, you rock!

PS: Eric is going to drop by there today to bring a box of old parts that have been replaced, including our old fuel pump. He's thinking he'll get there early afternoon. He'll look around the area where we met you guys by the Taco, and if he doesn't see you guys or the truck, he'll call Jason's cell to see about getting those parts to you guys. Thanks again for your hard work, we know you guys are gonna get this thing!!

 

• Block is surfaced
• Bored over & honed
• New pistons & rings
• Pin bushings, pins & locks
• Connecting rods re-sized
• Crankshaft is turned
• Oil galley plugs installed
• Expansion (freeze) plugs
• O.E.M. Main, rod & thrust bearings
• Cylinder heads (complete w/camshafts)
• TTY head bolts
• Japanese head gaskets
• Aisin oil pump
• Aisin water pump
• Rear main seal
• O.E.M. timing belt
• O.E.M. Idler pulley
• O.E.M. tensioner pulley
• O.E.M. Hydraulic tensioner

OK, that is the description we were given of what our remanufactured 5vzfe "dressed long block" consisted of. We were also told this:


"All of the components listed are not off of your old engine. All of your old sensors were reused. We do not track the years of the blocks because there is no difference in the block castings."


And this is what we were told about the parts replaced with the engine swap:


We replaced-
2 fuel injectors - Denso refurbished (Required cores)
Belts- Mitsuboshi (new)
Power Steering pump- Remanufactured (cardone A1) 1 year warranty
fuel filter - new- OP Parts 1 year warranty
Wide band O2 sensor- new (Innovate)
Fuel pressure regulator- New (genuine Toyota) 1 year warranty
Idle air control valve- used


And finally, these were some questions we asked and the answers we received regarding the engine swap:


When installing the new engine, how were you able to tell how to put each vacuum line, wire, and electrical connector back to where it belonged? (FSM)

Was our old engine rebuilt and reinstalled into the truck, or was a different engine that had already been rebuilt installed into the truck? Were any components of the old engine used in the new engine? (we installed a differant dressed LB, if its not listed as replaced then your original parts were reused)

Were there any modifications you had to make in order for the new engine to function in the truck? Have you done a straight 3.4 swap like this before? If so, did you have to make any modifications? (No, your engine was replaced with one that is a direct replacement. This was not our first 3.4L engine swap, no modifications were required.)

Thanks for reading TW!
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PS: wanted to share that info because NoahPete asked us an excellent question yesterday, about whether anything from our old engine was reused in the new engine. Not sure if this info directly answers the question, but hoping it could be semi helpful.....
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We will be here.

 

And here's my dumb question for this morning -

I just realized I didn't see valves listed in the description of the engine components. So that could mean our old ones were reused, right? Could that be causing issues?

 

Valves would be part of the cylinder head assembly, complete with cams.