SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

WOW, thank you so much!!!!!!!!! YES!! We'll post photos/video of under the hood ASAP, really really appreciate it! You guys rock, thank you!!!

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/50153-how-cleaning-throttle-body.html

Reminder for later - looks like a good Taco World thread on removing/cleaning TB & IAC valve.....

Just video'ed under the hood slowly - will post soon, in case Kigmob (or anyone else) feels like takin' a peek and seeing if anything looks strange.

Thanks guys!

 

Update - this last start was ~30 min after start before it, which is normally our "problem" starting scenario - and it started up quick! That seems like a positive no matter how you slice it, but still as to how/why it would resolve itself????

Also, let it idle for quite some time on that start, and RPMs hovered quite low throughout. Put it in gear, and they dipped as low as 494. That seems crazy low from my understanding. Sounded like it would die any second and Taco shook like it was about to. Again, ??????? It came up to temp (~200) and yet still, RPMs stayed in low 500's. So weird.

Crap. Just started again after sitting ~30-45 minutes since that last "good" start mentioned above, and back to long crank time/hard start. Damn, was starting to talk myself into accepting the mystery of "it just fixed itself somehow" ARGH! Husband's out there idling now, we'll see what it idled at this time.

 

Morning everybody!

Started great cold early this AM, then started horrible ~1 hr later. Problem didn't magically fix itself yet.

Held a stethoscope up to charcoal canister, and the clicking/tapping noise is definitely coming from it. Noise comes and goes.

DP, thank you very much for the input on that - we wanted to ask, how should we plug the hose (what to use)? Then once that's done, should the click stop, or what exactly are we looking for and what would it mean?

Also, looked at fuse box (you know, the thing next to the thing! sorry guys, still got a lot to learn, but last night's crash course helped a lot - hopefully you'll see less statements like that from me!).

Koditten, we didn't see an obvious fuse for fuel pump. Any guidance on that? What are we missing here?

Read more about IAC valve, and how one that is stuck open (they said ours was stuck, and pretty sure they said stuck open not closed) can cause lean condition. Makes sense, and imagining that thing being constantly open, coupled w/seeing it's location in relation to #3 cylinder, coupled w/failing injectors over there, and extra heat in that area due to location, all the puzzle pieces are seeming like a logical fit. Now leaning heavily towards having mechanic replace it. If we ordered part and did ourselves, we'd saved ~$30 - doesn't seem worth it, considering we'd be paranoid of damaging something in the process. Will likely call mechanic and ask them to order the part. They said it'd be 1/2 hr labor, so hoping when part's in, I can drive up and wait for them to swap it (at 30 miles away and w/husband's work schedule, it's tough to drop it off there).

Going to give it 1 more day before committing $ to it (fear of an ongoing "throw more $/parts at it til it's fixed" scenario). Would the IAC valve malfunctioning/sticking cause lopes in RPMs at idle? We are definitely seeing occasional big jumps up and down in RPMs when idling - not a lot of them, not frequently, but it is happening occasionally. And as mentioned in previous post, last night RPMs went as low as 494 and Taco almost died, even at normal operating temp of ~200 (that is normal, right?).

Also, waiting 1 more day seems worthwhile, so we can investigate all the other fairly easy (and FREE!) advice from you guys - DP's charcoal canister hose idea, Koditten's fuel pump fuse idea, see if Kigmob sees anything strange on video of under the hood, and also do this:

- Thanks DP!

Videos of under the hood coming next! In the meantime, here's a photo of under the hood, and a photo of our fuse box - anyone know which one is for the fuel pump?

Thank you very much everybody!!

 

http://youtu.be/YbHP-jA3K7A

Super exciting video #1 of under the hood. #2 under the hood while Taco is running coming next.........I know, you're all on the edge of your seat with excitement.

Seriously though, Kigmob and anyone else kind enough to take a gander at this, we really can't thank you enough. I don't doubt our mechanic's work at all, as the engine runs sooooooooooo beautifully and they really do seem like genuinely good guys who know what they're doing, but nothing to lose by getting more sets of eyes on it (we all make honest mistakes now and then, right?)

 

http://youtu.be/NrMpzyZ1ADA

Try to contain yourselves. Video #2. This was the start I was all excited about last night, cuz it had been ~1/2 hr since it was started before this, which has been the hard start circumstance - and it started right up here!! But since this, it's back to the usual - great starts super cold and super hot, and then the dreaded horrible warm starts. Don't laugh, but I even put the hood up before doing this morning's 1/2 hr later start test, thinking, well, it was up last night when it started great warm, so why not? Didn't work. Shocking, right? A true self taught "mechanic's" approach.

But really, the fact that now we've gotten at least 1 decent warm start, does anyone think that means cleaning IAC valve helped? Read a Taco World thread about a dude who cleaned his TB, then his IAC - http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/50153-how-cleaning-throttle-body.html and after reinstall, he still had problem then it eventually went away:

"Initial reason for looking into this: low warm idle, 550-600. Using these excellent instructions, I removed and cleaned my throttle body. Reading more right here at tacomaworld about IAC (thanks to all who have contributed here) I had to remove all again, remove the IAC and clean that as well. **** I think what I had done is effectively washed a bunch of gunk right down the "drain" and into the IAC. **** The IAC is held on with phillips head screws that might be a bugger to crack, be careful not to strip them, I used vice-grip around the head to crack each loos. The IAC has a rubber gasket, mine was fine, pliable and intact so I used it again. Re-installed all and STILL had the no-idle problem. But after several restarts it got better, the IAC probably started moving and now truck runs great, warm idle is 700 right at spec."

That's the other reason I'm stalling on replacing IAC yet - think it's possible we could get lucky and ours could improve since being cleaned Monday?

 

I think I would spend some $$ on a new fuel pump. The truck has quite a few miles as it is, its just a matter of time before it goes. Even if it doesnt solve the issue it would be a worthwhile investment imo.
The pump could be producing plenty of pressure but lacking volume which wont show up during diagnostic testing. I've seen it happen a couple times where a vehicle is throwing lean codes seems to be running OK and everything checks out but the code still persist..
Both times a new pump solved the problem.

 

Thanks for the input Knuckle. I know, I'm still not 100% ruling out fuel pump. From all the helpful descriptions everyone's posted about ways to replace that ourselves, I'm almost convinced we could handle it. And the fact that it's only ~$100 for the part online, seems like why not. But in addition, I'm very suspicious about that IAC too. So I guess it's down to deciding which to try 1st - the more expensive but virtually no effort on our part thing (IAC valve), or the cheaper but lots of effort thing (fuel pump)? For me it comes down to which is the more likely culprit, based on everything we know at this point, since neither is free!

VOTES - REPLACE IAC VALVE OR FUEL PUMP FIRST???????

Just started it again, so ~1 hour since last start - started great, right away! Just this morning, the ~1 hour later start after early AM start was awful! So now this is the 2nd good warm start we've had (had our first good warm start last night). Could the IAC valve's functioning be gradually improving since it's cleaning? Please say yes please say yes please say yes pretty please with sugar please

 

Im certain you can replace the pump, if you can do brakes you should be abled to pull it off. I would replace the fuel pump and test the iac with a battery..iac is easier to diagnose than the pump.. Either way i bet you will be replacing the pump before long anyhow, id just call it preventative maintenance.

 

Don't suppose you've got a handy how to on doing that?

 

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...iac-valve.html#/forumsite/20543/topics/231929





http://www.toyotacelicas.com/forums/96-seventh-generation/46208-idle-problems.html

Pretty much the same for all toyotas. If you have a haynes manual it should have a write up in it.

 

Here's the location of the combo MAF, intake air temp. After removal clean with spray from a can of electronics cleaner, do not touch the sensor elements with anything but the spray. A few squirts will "rinse" them off and things will dry off in seconds. Remember the actual MAF element is down inside the tube (see the previous pic). Use a good light to see down in the tube first so as to get a feel for what the cleaner has done. The "dirt" will look like what it is, very fine caked on dust. No touch, no touch, no matter how tempting.

Pass side, just down stream from the air box, blue arrow.

Damn that's clean for a 99.​

Closer


From behind looking forward. The 2 visible #1 Phillips head screws hold it in. Short "stubby" screwdriver works best. Unplug the connector and gently rock/twist to pull it out of the intake tube. It has an o-ring for sealing so make sure it's not torn. No need to disconnect the battery.


Here is the best vid on cleaning your model IAC, right down to the wrong gasket many people get sold. The little screws holding the IAC to the t-body are tight. Take the time to find a screwdriver that fits well and keep it aligned so as not to strip the head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgpIg-WkwOY

These are the 2 gaskets involved. The rubber one on left is from NAPA type stores, Felpro brand. The old one will likely have swollen over time and not fit back in place. The steel t-body gasket is from the dealer. Many folks reuse it, your call. Don't use a cheapo paper gasket.


Charcoal canister. I just thought you might want to see if it had any effect on the running of the engine (not likely) for your own peace of mind. Plug the engine side of the hose with nearly anything that will fit, I have used the dumb end of a felt tip pen to plug many a hose.
There are 2 small coolant hoses on the IAC that should be plugged also when you get to that (a little coolant will dribble out till you plug them).

 

IAC electrical test from the FSM. If this test fails it may be due to built up crud, so clean it before replacing.

 

I didn't realize the IAC had been cleaned. I have seen them be a little funky at first but it always clears up in just a few start/warm/cool cycles. Many folks that spray cleaner into the t-body end up filling the IAC with cleaner (it's at the bottom of the t-body). This can cause erratic idle speeds (usually on the high side) till it clears out. That is if the cleaner hasn't washed crud into the IAC.

 

Wow, thank you guys. So much helpful info here! Going to thoroughly review all of it now.

Just called mechanic again, to see what they'd charge to do fuel pump, just for comparison. $212 in labor (2.5 hrs) and $279 for the Denso OEM, which is weird, cuz Rock Auto and Amazon had (supposedly) the Denso, w/strainer kit, for $80 just yesterday. He said we could provide our own part if we wanted. Still, if we do fuel pump, leaning towards doing ourselves since you guys have said it's not hard. I asked if they drop bed or tank, he said on our truck type they'd drop tank. I know you have all given input on this - will go back and review it more closely now.

He's still strongly believing it's the IAC valve. Told him idle speed got as low as 494 last night, and he said low idle speed would indicate it's sticking closed, not open. Told him we've gotten 2 good warm starts now (1 last night and 1 this AM), intermingled w/some shit warm starts - I asked if it could be "relearning" how to function since it was cleaned Mon, and he said yes, but usually wouldn't take more than a few starts/drives (like you're saying, DP). He said that thing sticking could definitely have contributed to our lean condition at #3. They have an IAC valve in stock, but now are saying the price they quoted yesterday ($195) might have been too low, as that's what they paid for it. He's calling me back to confirm price for it, but said we could supply this part for them to swap also, and I found it on Amazon for $205.

Will read all of your helpful posts more thoroughly now (thank you!) and keep debating which item to go for next.......and keep starting it to see if it's magically fixing itself!!

 

By the way DP, we were in awe of how lovely and pristine everything looks on your truck! Husband was drooling with envy! Teach us all you know!

 

This. I checked my IAC with a battery, saw it move so I knew it wasn't stuck. Not to be a negative Nancy, but mine did the same thing. Sometimes it would start on a warm start and I thought the problem was going away. But eventually it would come back...

Also, it looks like you have the tube like MAF and not the drop-in MAF. DirtyPool posted how to clean the drop in type which is on I think 99+ Tacomas. My 97 has the tube like MAF and I just clean it by removing it and spraying MAF cleaner into the center piece (this is where the sensing element is located) then let it dry for 20-30 minutes.

 

Thanks Kigmob! Was just about to post how thrilled I was that I just had my 3rd good warm start, but after reading what your experience was, I'll keep it to a more cautiously hopeful reaction instead of flat out thrilled....

Definitely seems like this should be our next step.......it's been cleaned, so why not do this to see how it's functioning.....

 

Oh yeah, random question. Did anyone notice if we had an EGR valve in those videos, or the photo I posted? Pretty sure mechanic told me yesterday that we don't, although I have so much floating around in my head I'm not positive at the moment......

 

No EGR. Everything looks fine to me from what I can see under the hood.