SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

yep, i got all mixed up. i thought you meant after injectors were replaced it went from 30 minutes to an hour

im going 100 mph in 20 directions last few days so keeping up isnt easy

 

Oh good grief. Getting that awful icky nervous feeling now.

He said he'd call in the afternoon today, and it's nearly 5. Sure, it's still afternoon by lots of people's definition, but the later it gets, the lower my stomach sinks with the fear that it wasn't the fix.

It's not going to be easy news to take if it wasn't the fix.

Mod, you're close, you want to buy a really nice Tacoma with a hard warm start issue? Only sort of kidding.

It is getting to that point though, where eventually we have to move forward, and someone who has the patience, knowledge, and space to tinker around until they are able to fix the issue themselves would be a perfect match for this truck. It really is a nice truck, it's just this damn issue - could be something horribly dangerous to let go, or could be no big deal. And I'm not comfortable taking that risk and not fixing it. We've read about people who install an additional cold air intake or bypass or something like that, and it works for them. My husband was briefly trying to convince me to do that. And I don't know much about this stuff, but that sounds to me like more of a bandaid for something that could actually need a surgery. I'm standing my ground - either it gets fixed correctly, or the truck will be sold. Not going to drive it in fear of what might happen.

Might have to break down and call in a little bit here.......

Ugh. Voicemail. This sucks. I think I'm gonna throw up......

 

Sorry haven't read everything but at this point I wonder if you should try a known good (or at least another) ECM and Iwonder if your truck even has the correct one (if you know what I mean) maybe it's been replaced in the past. In fact what is the # on your ECM?

 

Thanks for the suggestion Steve. Don't blame ya one bit for not reading everything, this thread is too damn long!

How do you tell what the number is on the ECM, that's not the same as the VIN # is it?

We bought the truck with ~70K on her, and I know there were at least 2 or 3 owners before us, one of which only owned her for a short time, I wanna say like 6 months or a year or two or something. Which has always made us suspicious as to why such a short time - repo, wreck, ??? But yeah, I think it's possible something shady could have gone on with the ECM.

If we took her to a dealer, couldn't they put a good ECM in to see if there was a difference, just as a diagnostic step? Not sure we'd be willing to fork over $ for a new one, but if that was the issue, I think I'd at least be willing to look at options outside of buying an ECM from the dealer.

 

Ecm's can go bad with moisture being the main problem. Maybe someone left a window open in a rain storm for example. I mean it's just a guess but it's not uncommon for the ECM to crap out. Maybe your truck's lil brain is fried. I don't think they're all that expensive just make sure the battery is disconnected when you're changing it out and discharge static electricity from yourself before handling.

 

Still no word. I am seriously so done with this whole thing.

 

Noooooooooo!

Don't give up. Think of all that knowledge that now have. Once we get past this, you will be all powerful when it comes to keeping your truck in top running condition.

This is one of the reasons I stayed with this same truck. I know my way around it and didn't feel like learning something entirely different.

IM optimistic. The answer is just around the corner...it has to be.

Ko

 

Give ya $800 for that POS,,final offer.

I stared at a Sunfire red V6 Auto in 99. But the Auto killed it for me. Glad I went with the I4 and stick.

Get it done and go swap for a 2015 Tundra. More room for the dogs. $250 a month,,all worries erased. Trade it in a year or two later for a new one. repeat. If your going to make that payment, drive new always.

Only sort of kidding.

Is this guy out laying rubber still or what,,your truck back?.

 

Actually, last time we were there talking to him last weekend, we told him we started to worry when we didn't hear from him that he was pulling some Dukes of Hazzard moves in our Taco. His response was:

"That's a really good engine, lots of horsepower, I actually did accidentally peel out in my driveway"

No word. Went by his house last night, with no real plan, just dying to see what's going on. Saw him and another guy working on it in the dark, lights all set up. Chickened out from stopping and talking, feared we'd screw up their train of thought or whatever they were in the middle of doing. That was ~7:30 - picked up a pizza, came home and thought maybe we'd hear something. Nope.

Here we are, again this morning, wondering WTF to do. Yesterday was the 2 month anniversary of the piston hole. Woo hoo, there's an anniversary to celebrate.

Seriously depressed, seems there's no way out of this nightmare that just won't end.

PS: Mod, show me a 2015 Tundra that's $250 a month. I will buy it right now.

 

Just relax...I am starting to wonder if there is an ECM issue. Does the dealer have a way of putting the ECM through diagnostics?

It has also been two months since I dropped the 90 4Runner off at the shop. I noticed it got moved again last week, this time, further back in the lot, hard against the tracks.

Oh well, the longer it sits there, the more time I have to pay for the repairs.

I also got a call from my daughter...the transmission in her Accord that I paid 2.6k two weeks ago for a complete and total rebuild isn't shifting well. The exact complaint we had when it went in. I will give the shop one more week to get it right.

Howard

 

Wow, sorry to hear this hetkind. Sounds like you are in a very similar frustrating boat. You clearly have more patience than I, good job. I hope the transmission issue gets straightened out. And I hope your 4 Runner gets fixed too. It is really tough to deal with this stuff.

I want to keep being this zen style super patient person, but I can't help it. We are without a 2nd vehicle until the truck is either fixed or replaced. And it really sucks. And our other vehicle is a Civic w/225K. We've been preparing ourselves mentally and financially for a few years now to replace it, with something similar for ~10-15K. But we were NOT preparing ourselves mentally or financially to replace the truck for quite some time, because it's a Taco, so the thinking was, it's invincible, and will last at least 5-10 more years. Plus replacing it with a Taco that has the same features as this one and is younger in miles and years would be more like 20-25K. Don't have it. So, we pray every morning that the Civic hangs in there, we plan our driving around having one car that we are nervous to drive more than 20 miles per trip (leaks oil like a sieve), we watch the credit card bills arrive for the new engine and related work, and we play the waiting game with whoever is working on the truck.

Not a lot of patience left.

 

No worries, you should get a call sometime today I would think. You guys should have whipped in there with a box of beer and talked to him last night.

Go out back and shake your other loaded money tree,,problem solved on the Tundra.

 

I would have totally done this Mod, but the guy doesn't drink. Get the feeling he used to maybe, then stopped.

A person can only enjoy so many cheesecakes, so not sure what else I can do to butter him up.

Can you come plant one of those trees for us?

 

Coil Packs:

In 2007, we took Taco to the dealer and reported:

"When pulling a hill engine cuts out and sputters."

They said:

"Test drive and verified concern. Inspected and found #3 spark plug, plug wire, and coil carbon tracked. Replaced plugs, wires, and #3 coil. Perform fuel injection cleaning service - includes pressure clean fuel injectors, intake valves and combustion chamber to remove performance robbing deposits and varnish. EFI cleaner, pour; pressurized EFI 1. Test drive and no further concerns at this time."

In 2014, we blew a hole in piston #3. The engine mechanic SAID he sent our injectors out for cleaning, and couldn't remember for sure (!!!) but thought #3 and #5 were the 2 that were found to be faulty, so they were replaced (supposedly).

We developed a hard warm start issue. We chased lots of potential causes. One of our chases at home was coil packs. We tested their OHMs when ECT was 200, and all tested within spec, for both primary and secondary values. Then I realized that test was performed when IAT was below 60, which is the value (or higher) it needs to be in order to produce a hard warm start. We waited until IAT was 83, which would definitely produce a hard warm start. We retested the coil packs, and the value that's supposed to be no more than 1.23 when engine is hot tested 1.3 on all of them.

I know I already posted this info, somewhere around post #1 trillion and 87. I also tried to convey it to our new mechanic the first night we took Taco there, and frankly, was somewhat shushed and dismissed by our neighbor, my husband, and the mechanic. I know no one on here seemed to think it meant much.

But in my mind, it seems relevant. It seems to me that whatever was happening at #3 in 2007 happened again in 2014, but the difference is in 2014, it progressed much further before it was noticed. And in 2007, new plugs, wires, replacing #3 coil pack, and cleaning the injectors (which was just done for the 2nd time - correctly this time) bought us 7 more years of no issues.

I realize the issue now is hard warm starts, which is completely different than the symptoms we reported in 2007. And while those coil packs DID all test in excess of spec when IAT was high enough to produce a hard warm start, it seems strange that the coil packs could be the issue, considering all 3 tested at an identical value above spec. To me, that seems like rather than the coil packs being the issue, that rather they are a symptom of some other issue. Or who knows, maybe all 3 are failing?

Anyway, wanted to bounce all of this off of my sounding board and try to collect any thoughts/opinions on it that I can, to help me decide whether it's worth bringing up to our mechanic again, or worth spending $$$ on new coil packs to see what happens.

Thank you.

 

Sorry, again not reading all posts... the issue is the truck won't start when hot? Has the engine coolant temp sensor been replaced or the cam and/or crank sensor?

 

He finally just called. He's going to check the cam and crank sensors today, as well as the MAF. He and the engine mechanics had said these sensors were checking out fine, but apparently now he's going to check something more in depth with them (?).

He said he has now found that there's no injector pulse during the hard warm start time, but there is the correct pulse during other times. I think he said he used a noid light to identify this last night. He's going to call us later today. Husband is googling no injector pulse right now, and he said the first thing that comes up is crank sensor, which is something a lot of you have mentioned, as well as folks on other forums.

Here we go again. New theory to pray on.

Thanks for reading all.

EDIT: Our mechanic kept saying, "I wonder if the engine guys broke a tooth off in there" - anyone know what he meant by that? Meaning the timing belt, or ?????

 

Hang in there guys! And enjoy your Saturday.

 

Thanks Pee Runner! You rock man! Positive comments MUCH APPRECIATED right now!

 

well the engine guy (at the price you paid) in my mind should have put all new sensors in for you with the age and mileage on the truck but as far as that subject goes.

just keep in mind, its not hard to do good engine work with the proper training and tools even though it sucks that things keep coming back to what engine guy might have not done or not done right.

when it comes to engine work, if you just pay attention and put "some" effort into it, the job you get is reliable and dependable for years to come so even though it looks like he avoided doing anything above the basic minimums required, that doesn't mean it wasn't a well done rebuild so don't let it discourage your opinion on the long life you will get from it.

I think your guy meant they might have teeth or a gear that connects to the crank sensor and if a tooth broke off its missing that correct alignment as it skips over the missing tooth. (but im just sorta edumacated guessing here)

 

OK, husband said what the mechanic was referring to as far as how he was wondering aloud if "a tooth is missing" was the crankshaft trigger wheel.

Per an article husband is reading about it:

The crankshaft position sensor is installed on the rear end of the cylinder block. The sensor generates a pulse, when one of the teeth on the perimeter of the crankshaft plate (rotating together with the crankshaft) passes in front of it. The ECM determines the crankshaft angular position by counting the number of pulses. As the crankshaft rotates, each tooth of the crankshaft plate aligns with the crankshaft position sensor, so that the magnetic flux in the sensor's coil changes since the air gap between the sensor pick up and the crankshaft plate changes. This change in magnetic flux induces a voltage pulse in the crank sensor and the pulse is transmitted to the ECM.

Sounds like our mechanic intends to plug his scan tool into the back of the crankshaft sensor, then he'd be able to read whether there's a broken tooth on the trigger wheel. I think. Although I have no clue really, because I'm not a mechanic.


What we're most confused about right now is, if this is the issue, then:

Why would this only occur during hot starts and not all starts?