SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

By depressing the accelerator?

 

Yep, the SG will register the movement of the throttle as long as the key is in the on position. Engine doesn't need to be running.

No jokes about how quickly I responded.

 

Thanks K! And now for jokes about how quickly you responded........

 

I've got an awesome set of tools and I know how to use them!

 

OK, page 5 of the attached file from FSM shows a chart titled

"Fail Safe Chart"

Then it says: "If any of the following codes is recorded, the ECM enters fail-safe mode."

And one of the codes listed is our code - P0120.

Next to the code, in a column titled "Fail Safe Operation" it says: "VTA is fixed at 0 (zero) degrees."

Then next to that, in a column titled "Fail Safe Deactivation Conditions" it says: "The following condition must be repeated at least 2 times consecutively VTA > or equal to 0.1 V and < or equal to 0.95 V."

WTF? Anyone? Kinda nervous to mess with anything now. If I'm understanding this right, it sounds like we might be in fail safe mode right now? Yikes. Not even sure I wanna restart it. And we're ~10 minutes past due for our 30 min start.

OK, reviewing FSM instructions for testing to do when you get this code.
1) Depressing accelerator while watching TPS on SG - no need to start truck, just turn ignition to "on." See if goes to 75, if it does, see mechanic, we're done. If it doesn't, go to step 2.
2) Checking voltage on connector to the TPS - no need to start truck, just turn ignition to "on." If test results are no good, see mechanic, we're done. If test results are good, go to step 3.
3) Checking OHMs on TPS - no need to start truck or turn to "on." If test results are bad, replace sensor (PLEASE LET IT BE THIS). If test results are good, see mechanic.

OK, writing this out forced hubby and I to get ourselves good and organized to do this. We're doing this. Cross your fingers for a bad TPS. Not gonna start it to see if liner was sole culprit, cuz we're a little worried about starting it in this condition, plus nothing to lose by doing these tests anyway, except some time.

 

Can't open the file, but I've been sure you have been in FS mode from the start.

Basically, the engine is keeping itself from becoming a brick.

It will sacrifice things like cats, O2 sensors and shitty millag to keep you running to get you home

 

Any time the CEL goes o n, you are in FS mode.

 

Wow, didn't know this. Thanks K. We're not starting it anymore.

The CEL didn't light up when we started it ~30 min ago, does that tell us anything (that it didn't come back on and hadn't stayed on from earlier)?

This is what we're doing:

1) Depressing accelerator while watching TPS on SG - no need to start truck, just turn ignition to "on." See if goes to 75, if it does, see mechanic, we're done. If it doesn't, go to step 2.
2) Checking voltage on connector to the TPS - no need to start truck, just turn ignition to "on." If test results are no good, see mechanic, we're done. If test results are good, go to step 3.
3) Checking OHMs on TPS - no need to start truck or turn to "on." If test results are bad, replace sensor (PLEASE LET IT BE THIS). If test results are good, see mechanic.

OK, writing this out forced hubby and I to get ourselves good and organized to do this. We're doing this. Cross your fingers for a bad TPS. Not gonna start it to see if liner was sole culprit, cuz we're a little worried about starting it in this condition, plus nothing to lose by doing these tests anyway, except some time.

 

To simplify, our engines won't be hurt by too much fuel. When first started the engine has much more fuel than it needs. The computer is running in open loop. This means it us ignoring data from the O2 sensors. Those sensors would be recording a fuel rich exhaust and would trip the CEL immediately. The engine temp needs to be up to close to normal before the ecu switches to closed loop mode.

When in closed loop mode, all sensors are feeding data to the ecu, so if one or more sensors are reading bad, you get a CEL. In closed loop mode, the entire system is much more sensitive.

It can take a while to switch from open to closed loop. The scan gauge has this monitiring feature if you are curious. Take a look to see if the SG switches from open to closed loop.

 

Well that didn't take long. Did step one, where we turn ignition to "on" and depress the accelerator slowly/smoothly and watch for TPS on Scan Gauge to slowly/smoothly climb to ~75% in ratio with my foot pressing the pedal. And it did. Which means the next step is see mechanic, cuz that probably means circuit stuff. The FSM says to see DI 145 if it passes that test, and DI 145 (the file I attached to recent post) describes all sorts of scary crap that it sounds like you need some serious tools and expertise to check. Damn.

Good news is, after that test, we were so discouraged, we couldn't resist the temptation to try starting it, now that hood liner is gone. And excessive cranking. I *guess* that's good news? In the sense of we haven't actually overlooked something that simple all this time. Although I guess it's bad news, as I'd rather feel stupid and have a truck that works that be where we are.

OK, but the real good news is at least now we have some real data for our mechanic to work with, and I'm sure it will make things a hell of a lot easier for him to figure out.

Apparently the thread isn't ending anytime soon.

Koditten, Scan Gauge is in open loop right now. Also, husband found a bunch of data in the "freeze" area of it, and he's writing that stuff down now. A bunch of PID code stuff. Googled that, according to wikipedia its this: Parameter IDs are codes used to request data from a vehicle, used as a diagnostic tool.

 

Here's the freeze frame data stored in Scan Gauge, and our understanding is it's data that was saved from when the code P0120 was thrown this morning:

PID02 = 0120
PID03 = 0100
PID04 = 37
PID05 = 70
PID06 = 80
PID07 = 81
PID0C = 06E0
PID0D = 0
PID0F = 43

OPEN LOOP
LOD = 21
WT = 161
RPM = 880
MPH = 0
IAT = 80 (F)

Mean anything to anyone? Yeah, me either!

Husband is doing steps 2 and 3 anyway, even though FSM basically says, if you pass step 1, you're f'ed. It's kind of a sad feeling, like the night he was sticking a magnet down the plug well hoping to retrieve the missing electrode. Good grief. Time to start drinking.

 

Raise you hand if anyone or all of us could have cleaned that TB up and inspected it much better than that,,and used new gaskets,,,????? anyone?,,everyone?.

All this leftover dirt and 1/2 assed work is pissing me off. Schmucks!,,and I do remember there name and where they are located. Won't soon forget it and gonna shout it out to all my buds.

vented, kinda.

You might want that liner blanket back in there someday Jen. It helps around this area. Heat control as well as sound deadening. If you get a crazy whistle at speed it might be one of the button holes that holds that gig onto the hood underside. Had that happen to a car I worked on without the blanket and hold down buttons in place. Hell of a thing to track down.

 

I think you're getting closer!

 

Bwaaahaaaa! Too funny!

I can't get enough if these BW pics and quotes!

BW rocks!

 

Yeah! I'm about due for a moment of being pissy at MY MOST FAVORITE ENGINE MECHANICS EVER. Well timed, Mod, well timed indeed.

Thanks for the pick me up. Their name is no longer listed on the thread, so we can piss and moan all we want IMHO!!!

Uh oh, too late on the liner. We'd consider getting a new one later, but honestly that's the least of my concerns right now. Will have this post to reference later though, if we ever get to later, so thanks for the advice, hopefully we'll be using it someday.

 

You do? That makes one of us then! Thanks though Steve, you guys are getting real good at timing these pick me ups just when I need 'em most! Appreciate it man! Didn't even get a chance to start crying this time, too many nice thoughts on the thread coming at me!

 

OK, not sure if this was intended to be a pick me up, or just some random Koditten comment?!??! Are you grilling and drinking AGAIN man????

 

Husband went ahead with step 3, which was checking the sensor itself.

The resistance results in OHMs were:

2.98 (normal range 2.5 - 5.9) - throttle valve normal (not f'ed with I guess?)
.68 (normal range 0.2 - 5.7) - throttle valve fully closed
2.44 (normal range 2.0 - 10.2) - throttle valve fully open

Husband is tempted to replace sensor for $75, based on some of the results being just at the very end of the spec range.

Thoughts? I realize it's our money, not yours, so you can't really decide for us, but if it was your truck, would you replace it or see mechanic next, to enter the wonderful world of circuits and shit?

 

He skipped the FSM step to check the connection to the sensor because he said it'd throw a code if we did that, because we'd have to unplug the sensor while the ignition was turned to "on" to check the voltage of the connection.

 

Yeah, that was one of my G&D comments. I figured you needed to see me acting like an ass.

I need to know if you trust the wiring. Any time you have wires stretched to make connection is nit good.

one of the easiest ways to check the integrity of a wire is to stock a needle they the side of a wire, then use the ohm meter to check if you have continuity. One end of the meter is touching the plug end and the other end of the meter is touching the needle, which is touching the wire it's self. If the meter reads 100%, then you know there is no break in the wire it connector. You only end up with a tiny hole in the wire insulation. It is an easy and free methods to check for brokenwwired.

It's not me drunk typing. Fuking tablet is set to gibberishq and I don't know how to switch it to engrish.