SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Yep, those VERY NICE AND QUALIFIED engine mechanics installed the AFR gauge, and selected this particular brand/type of AFR gauge for us. We are the ones that brought it up to them initially - someone on the thread suggested it would be a good idea for us, to help us keep an eye on things getting too lean. And we all know how f'ing paranoid I am about that nowadays. So we asked the engine guys if they'd ever heard of an AFR gauge, and did they think it was a good idea for us. He said in our situation where we burned a hole in our piston, that yes, it would be a good idea. For $415. So we said, OK, yes put one in - that's a lot of extra money, but we want to do anything and everything we can to be forewarned if anything like this were to ever happen again. In fact, here's our email exchange about it:

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Jennifer

Hi Michael,

Just wanted to check in and see how things were going? I left a message for you on Friday that we'd decided to go ahead w/the ARF sensor/gauge, and also asking for you to change our fuel filter if you thought it needed it, as well as asking for you to let us know if there was anything else you'd recommend checking/replacing with our fuel system.

We're hoping that gauge will be a good thing in the long run, to help us alert us to any potential future injector/lean condition problems. Do you know what brand the gauge is, so we can try to read about how it works?

Definitely not trying to rush you guys at all - just checking in and hoping things are going well! Wasn't sure when you guys would be there this week, with the holiday coming up, so thought I'd send a quick note to find out if you need anything from us or have any new info.

Thank you!

Jennifer & Eric

Jennifer-

We are going with a

$205 Innovate 3795 DB BLUE Wideband Air/Fuel Gauge Kit includes LC-2 & Bosch LSU 4.9

Innovate 3795 LC-1 wide band 02 sensor/gauge. We are also replacing the fuel filter, we are hoping to have it done Thursday or Friday at the latest.

Then on 1/2, he emails and says we have a hot start issue. 3 days after this email exchange. And after reading your post hetkind, I just looked back through the papers, etc that came with the gauge. We did receive a CD of software, and a little 1 page quick start guide thing, a sticker, etc. But, no warranty paperwork. Hmmm, wonder why no warranty paperwork. Interesting.

You know, I always thought it was strange that when I asked him about putting in a new set of Bosch 4 hole injectors, he instantly shot it down, and even got a little snotty - even though my last engine was thought to be destroyed by failing injectors. Failing 17 year old injectors. After that, I thought, maybe it pisses him off when customers want specific brands/items put in. So I was a little nervous to bring up my own ideas of brands/extras/changes of any kind after that, but..........

When I asked him about putting in a gauge, that at the time I believed would be this ultimate godsend to forewarn us of impending doom, he did not hesitate for a second. Hmmm. I'm sure it wasn't because he had one sitting on a shelf and he wanted to get rid of it, ya think guys?

And don't forget the fun fact irony of how shortly after that thing was put it, I started asking folks on here, and my buddy Matt exactly how it would work to forewarn us of impending doom. And then got my school lesson on why it basically won't, because it's taking the consensus info from all 6 cylinders, so it one is running lean, SUPRISE, the piston hole is going to probably happen anyway, gauge or no gauge. HA!! At that point, I though the crappiest thing about that gauge was the fact that we wasted $415 in parts/labor on it, when all it really was after all was just a pretty little lit up display of bullshit information. Woo hoo!!

But never in my wildest dreams did I imagine it was the evil culprit. Wow. Still just blowing my mind.

I love love love this outcome though!!! We went into that engine decision with the belief that our Taco was overall solid. A good truck. Sure, it eventually needs shocks. And we knew about the dumb boot seep. Didn't know about the wheel bearing back then, but fine, whatever, shit like that is normal wear and tear - it will be needed eventually on any truck. But we felt that until that piston hole, we'd never had any major issues with the inner workings of the truck. And based spending $5K on a new engine on that.

Then we got very depressed, when we began chasing this hot start issue, and replacing many hundreds of dollars worth of parts, that in retrospect many of which were likely not needed. But it really sucked, not just to have the problem, but to think we must have been real idiots, because look at all this stuff our old ass truck needs to have replaced, and it must be in worse condition than we realized, what were we thinking, and now even after all this stuff has been replaced, its STILL having the problem, wow how stupid are/were we. You get the idea.

So that is the best part for me. Our truck is SOLID as a fucking rock, just like I thought in the first place. Didn't need all that shit that we replaced! It just needed to either pass on the stupid piece of shit gauge, or at least if she was gonna have to have the damn thing on her, she wanted one that worked and that was installed correctly. Can ya blame her???

MY TRUCK IS SOLID YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm glad this shit is behind you. So very happy. Now maybe I can get something done on mt truck.

I think now is a good time to jack this thread and turn it into something totally off the wall.

 

in your defense, I thought about that gauge a week or so ago. It hit me in the middle of the night, but I forgot all about it until I was reminded about it yesterday. I feel bad not suggesting it earlier.

 

No way man! You shouldn't feel bad at all!! If anyone should feel bad, its them!! They knew that and the engine were the only two "changed" variables. And we knew that too. And we kept telling ourselves, we really need to disconnect that thing and see. But it kept slipping our minds.....

I don't blame our new mechanic one bit. I don't remember ever telling him that thing was installed at the time of the engine swap. Hell, we already had SO much info we were giving him, that at the time we thought was much more important to let him know about than the gauge. So for all he knew, we'd had that thing on the truck for 10 years. So why would he have any reason to question it?

I don't feel stupid really. Yes, obviously I wish we'd disconnected it the very first moment we thought about it. But ultimately, those guys should have been the ones to first think of that and suggest it.

Now we want to remove it ASAP, but we need to be sure we are doing things in the correct steps, and making sure to document what we need to, should this thing turn ugly. Husband is reading the packet of info that WE PRINTED OFF THE WEB (not given to us by the engine mechanic, but rather we found it ourselves when it was installed), to try to understand how it was wired, whether it's tied to our ECM, etc. Because it's still a very short hesitation when cranked while truck is hot - pretty darn close to normal, but not completely. So we're guessing if it was wired through ECM, then perhaps it just needs to be driven to recognize that thing is gone and correct itself. But if it wasn't, then I'm nervous as to whether something was permanently damaged as far as the electrical system, and if therefore the mildly abnormal start is now the new permanent "normal." From reading the install info, it appears you can choose to wire through ECM or not. My guess would be they didn't if it's optional, considering they were too lazy to clean the pine needles off of our intake manifold or replace some shitty old hoses.

So much crap to think about right now, to be sure we do things correctly and in the proper order, in an effort to be refunded what's fair. And yet all we wanna do is rip it out and drive drive drive!!!!!!!!!!

Thinking we'll have our mechanic remove it when he's back. They drilled a hole in the exhaust pipe under the truck and welded the sensor for the gauge into it, a couple of inches from our O2 sensor. So obviously that hole will need to be dealt with, or possibly replace the pipe. And then the wires come into the cab under the passenger floor, and they didn't put a seal around the hole for those wires, so when you lay under the truck and look up at the hole, you can see the underside of the floor carpet (see pic). That will have to be dealt with too. And the most important thing is making sure everything is done correctly with removing it in terms of wiring/electrical/ECM stuff. So much to think about and plan. But we're on the downhill slope of this nightmare finally, hurray!!

 

quick opinions needed. this is what I'm going after.

 

This what I got mocked up. I need to know if my dimensions look similar to the picture of an actual ARB bumper. I don't have an actual bumper to measure. From were I'm sitting it looks pretty close, which is fine. I can't get in trouble for copywriter issues if it a little different.

I know I'm thread jacking...and I don't care.

 

Been wanting to find a chance to use this emoticon from day one, finally got one, thanks!!

Looks good K, nice work!

 

Are we gonna make 2000 or what guys?

 

That was my goal. Your on to to me.

 

Gen, glad things are looking up. Goin for 2K
I just finished reading the manual for your particular AFR gauge. It can be installed as a stand alone gauge or with the option of linking it to the ECM. For it to have any effect of any kind on the running of the engine it would have to be wired into your ECM. Have your guy investigate if and how that may have been done when he gets back.
As a stand alone gauge it would only need 12v power, 2 ground wires (white and blue), a yellow wire to the gauge and the cable to the sensor in the exhaust. If the "analog output #2" a brown wire, is connected then it is likely tied into the ECM. You guys should be able to tell if this is the case pretty quick. If it is, let your guy take it from there. If not, I don't see any way it could be the cause of the problem.

 

good god that's hack job work , soon as you drove in the rain your carpet and floor would be soaked from underneath and the floor mats would have mold and mushrooms growing under it

the good news is it looks like they just popped out a body plug so you should be able to get another one and just pop it back in the hole to seal it up.

glad your all sorted.

now to figure out if the gage was put in wrong, not set up correctly, was the wrong one for your car, or was just defective.

you may be able to get a replacement gage from the manufacturer if its bad then you can in good faith resell it to someone and hopefully get a bit of your money back out of it. I never see the need for such things as too much info just makes you obsess of stuff too much, get a small portable scan gage and plug it in when you get a code and otherwise just drive and forget all those useless numbers.

don't get me wrong, those gages are nice but unless you eat cereal out of old engine pistons and look for excuses to tinker with things just for the hell of it and constantly obsess over stuff, then drive it in peace and let the ECM computer handle monitoring it for you.

now you can send that ECM back to your benefactor and he can sell it to the guy looking to buy one just like it in the for sale section, or you could sell it to that guy and make some money to buy more cookies JK

we know you'd never do that, besides, you don't have time for cookies anymore because your gonna be burning up the trails non-stop from now on, you got your truck back !!!!!

now you need to rename the thread "things that can go wrong when you do an engine rebuild"

 

Wow, thanks for reading that DP!! Holy cow!

It's just gotta be the cause. We are 99.9% certain. We disconnected the thing. Then we started it 2 separate times at the 30 min mark, with IAT up in the 80's each time. Started ALMOST normally, just a wee bit excessive crank, but much closer to normal than abnormal. Then repeated at 45 min. Same thing. Then repeated at 1 hour. Same. Then reconnected the gauge and started at 30 min mark. Excessive crank time. I can't imagine how this is not it. And it makes me glad to realize that in order for this to be it, it's gotta be tied to the ECM. Because that fits perfectly with my thought that if it IS tied to ECM, then the Taco just needs to be driven a bit after the gauge is taken off in order for the ECM to fully recognize that it's gone, and therefore correct the mild extra crank time.

Ugh, we are dying to rip that thing off NOW. But we gotta think and do this right. We are on the home stretch..........

Thanks again for reading that DP, very kind of you!!

 

A good idea having Mech1 remove that gauge, or check the proper connections and just leave it in. He probably became reliant on that gauge at one point or another and it will probably drive him batty if he doesn't have a look first.

 

Wait, take the truck back to the engine mechanics?

And consider leaving the gauge on?

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or.........

We want that thing GONE ASAP. I have never hated an inanimate object quite so much......

And I am NEVER letting them touch my truck again. Ever. Period. The end.

 

Might as well let mechanic #2 remove it. If you are done with the engine change guys, no sense bothering to take it to them. The first guys are not going to give you any cash because it was installed at your request.

It may have cost you $400, but it was a leasson that you learned.

I always say educations are expensive, painfull or embarassing...or all three.

I also learned that what those things can do to our trucks, so I thank you for the free education.

KO

 

That bolded part -

 

Oh no, we will be asking for money back, whether we asked about having the gauge installed or not. They chose that particular gauge for us, and either installed a faulty part or installed it incorrectly. Either way, we should not have to be out $400 and all the nightmare caused by the faulty part and/or faulty install. No way.

On a side note, when I spoke with the engine mechanic several days ago, I asked for a copy of our injector report, as well as the warranty paperwork for all of the "new" parts they put on and charged us "new" prices for. Guess what? He's still looking for all of the requested paperwork. 3 days later. Emailed and said he can't find the injector report, and will try to get one from the company where they were serviced.

Not going to lay down and take it guys. Nope. Too many issues have been discovered.

 

It would definately be a good will gesture. I'm pulling for you.

I'll catch up with the thread later. I got to head in and get cleaned up. taking the Mrs to a play for valentines day. Alright, I won't lie, she is taking me to a play. It was my desire to see the play. Shakespere.

Later

KO

 

ok, let me say this, I know your emotions are all over the place here but your expectations are a bit wrong in my opinion. changing your mind on having it is not a refundable reason to get or legitimately ask for your money back. neither is leaving the decision up to him as to what to get, both are actions you decided to accept and it was your decision so getting the money spent on it back is not an option for you in this case.

all they are obligated to do, in my opinion, is to get you a working replacement or to hook it up correctly so that it works without causing problems.

you agreed to the purchase and they installed it (done right or wrong) so they will rightly say they aren't responsible if it was faulty and they will only swap it out for a good one at no additional cost and they would be completely in the right to say and do just that. your beef is with the gage maker not the engine guy (unless he passed on a used one or something) he can get a replacement for it through the warranty where he bought it.