Space and Science BS Thread

It sounds like you’re implying that SpaceX is just using hydrogen fuels, in Russian-designed motors, neither of which is true.

That said, Blue Origin REALLY needs to up it’s PR game. It’s not Elon that a lot of us are interested in, it’s what Gwynne has managed to iterate on despite his ... distractions.

 

Check them out at https://www.blueorigin.com/ and sign up to receive updates, announcements, launches, etc. They often have live podcasts of launches. Oh, and by the way, they have been 100% privately financed. No government funds were used for development. We paid for it by buying crap on Amazon.

 

I didn't mean to imply the Space-X was using only dated technology. I was just comparing what Blue Origin is developing and using vs what the Russians appear to be using which is old outdated yet somewhat reliable tech that was shown in an earlier post.

 

This!

I think this is another reason why I like SpaceX. Jeff Bezos is...not so great to his employees.

And yet SpaceX is pioneering the use of LOX and even ion propulsion.

 

Gotcha. Yeah. Besides BlueOrigin and SpaceX, there’s not that much in the way of innovation happening, and a lot of other companies are going to hit a brick wall when all of a sudden they’re third choice or lower. I’ll definitely look into what BlueOrigin is doing, though.

 

Maybe it’s the operational status of the reusable F9, among other things, of SpaceX...

Edit: Anything Blue Origins, ULA, Russia, China are planning will be obsolete if Starship becomes operational..

Edit 2: Anyone figure out many boring machines can fit into a lunar modified Starship? Starships intended for Mars?

 

Not to mention Methalox..

First ever full flow stage combustion engine, 70 + successful landings and reuse of orbital class rockets..

 

IF...it doesn't crash and burn like sn8. oops.



Space-X is doing good things. Blue origin is also doing good things, and they don't seem to crash. They have been landing rockets (without blowing them up) for several years now.




Now for aesthetics:

The Space-X rocket looks like it's straight out of Flash Gordon!

The Blue Origin rocket looks like a giant dick!

 

A space elevator would be awesome but we don't yet have the materials to make it work. When you do the math on the forces involved and the fact you have to build it top down with our current engineering capabilities it's science fiction and will remain so for a long time.

Bascially I doubt even Elon can find unobtainium in a short time.

 

And how many paying customers does BO have?
Launches that actually achieved orbit?
How many live broadcasts have they made to show their successes and failures?

They might think they’re doing something but it’s all gonna go to shit. Antiquated technology destined for the dustbin.

They’ve been sub-orbital for what, a decade?

Knock SN8 all you want. Seems to me SpaceX is a learning organization that’ll figure shit out pretty quickly. BO will continue to tinker with their toys until they’re as useful and productive as the SLS.

 

SpaceX expected SN8 to crash. They didn't want it to crash, but they expected it. They will learn from that mistake and I would be willing to guarantee that SN9 lands just like it should.

 

Paying customers? Hmmm. Well let's see... NASA for one: https://www.blueorigin.com/news/nasa-selects-new-glenn-for-launch-services-catalog

How many live broadcasts? Well, several in the form of pod casts. I don't remember seeing any unplanned failures on any of the live broadcasts. Here is one of the LIVE broadcasts which just happens to be the 11th consecutive time the New Sheppard rocket has launched and landed (not crashed).

Successes and failures? Ok, so both Blue Origin and Space-X are launching what are supposed to be reusable rockets. I have to humbly admit that I am no rocket scientist, but when a launch vehicle crashes and burns, it just takes common sense to determine that it is can no longer be used as a launch vehicle and the therefore not reusable. Blue Origin has launched and landed one of their boosters (meaning the same booster) 6 times without a failure. Oh sure, they did have one failure waaaay back in 2011. but that was some early work they were doing with very early prototypes. Secretive Private Spaceship Builder Reports Rocket Failure | Space

Antiquated technology? Well sure, Blue Origin does have a rocket that uses Kerosene and Hydrogen Peroxide. The Germans used a Hydrazine/Methanol based fuel and Hydrogen Peroxide as an oxidizer of their ME-163 Komet back in the 1940's so this technology is pretty old. However, Blue Origin has developed a Liquid Hydrogen/Liquid Oxygen engine (BE-3), a Liquified Natural Gas/Liquid Oxygen engine (BE-4), and most recently, a Liquid Hydrogen/Liquid Oxygen engine designed for use in space and and for lunar landing and takeoff (BE-7). Blue Origin | Engines

Blue Origin seems to be exercising a little caution in the development of their payload delivery systems since the intended payload is people. If Space-X crashes a rocket during landing, or worse, before achieving orbit and destroys a payload worth hundreds of millions of dollars, not to mention the cost of the rocket itself, it's ok as long as the money is still coming in. There was one such crash not too many years ago that nearly destroyed Space-X financially until and investor stepped in and essentially saved the company. Overall, Space-X launches have been around 94% successful but at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars due to the small percentage of very expensive catastrophic failures. Below is just one small example.

2016 Space X loses a rocket before launch,
after the vehicle explodes during fueling.


It's really not fair to compare say Blue Origin's BE-3 with the Space-X Raptor engine (which is pretty awesome) as these were designed for different types of missions. Here is a really comprehensive video illustrating not only the different types of engines and the fuels they use, but also the cost, efficiency and viability of the different platforms for use in the future of space travel.

 

Yeah, after watching the video, it wasn't as much of control failure as it was a design failure. Easily fixed I'm sure. It was really cool to watch.

 

Happy New Year

TL;DR How many times have they reached orbit? I’ll tag you in a more thorough response later.

 

To call NASA a paying customer for Blue Origin is a bit of a stretch. They are paying to help fund development and testing in hopes that the New Glenn will work out. Blue Origin is doing some good work but they are so slow they might just lose out on everything before they can get paying customers for actual orbital launches.

As for failures and costs associated I'm pretty sure that SpaceX's 98% success rate is still cheaper than ULA's 100% success rate just due to the decreased cost in reusable components. I didn't do the hard math but a Falcon 9 launch runs about $57 million versus ULA's average cost of $225 million.

 

How many times has Blue Origin reached orbit? I don't know or even if they have. That's not really what the BE-3 was designed to do, and since the BE-4 hasn't flown yet...

One could also ask how many times has Space-X crashed and burned vs the number of times Blue Origin has. I guess we'll find out in 2021!

 

Has this turned into a Beta-max vs VHS discussion? Cuz this is how you start a Beta/VHS discussion



I kid, I kid....Beta was clearly better...


I do enjoy the discussion however, keep on keeping on gents

 

Beta was the better, but VHS won out in the end.

I won't say one brand of rockets is better than the other, but we know which one is pulling in the money right now.

 

Can I get a tl;dr?

SpaceX also has NASA for a customer. They are contracted to fly astronauts (people) into orbit. Has Blue Origin flown people for NASA yet?

 

I put responses in bold to some of your points above.

All I know is that SpaceX is the only private firm to launch humans to the ISS, twice. When there’s conjecture about the Europa Clipper not launching on the SLS, the rocket most mentioned is the Falcon Heavy. Starship (incl the Super Heavy) will revolutionize access to space once operational.