Space and Science BS Thread

That's just bureaucracy in general. Unqualified people with power over money they didn't earn making decisions on projects they don't understand with no accountability or consequences. SpaceX operates on a different level because they are more accountable to their shareholders than the bureaucracy.

How about some more positive ideas. What do we think Elon will send on the first 5 Starships? I'm betting one will have Starlinks for communication to Earth. Hoping at least a handful of Optimus's. And at least one green house since that's what started the idea of SpaceX.

 

But Boeing isn’t a bureaucracy, it’s also a publicly traded company. The problem goes back to cost plus contracts and my particular beef is with how many such contracts were abandoned because the industry at large was never held accountable for actually delivering. If we’re going to piss the money away I’d rather see it going to universities conducting basic research so we’d at least get some people educated. CP ended up as just another means of doling out tax dollars to whichever states had the leverage to get it rather than being based on results.

 

Technically you're right, but believe me when I say they are a bureaucracy. When you want to revise or even just get clarification for manufacturing a part for SpaceX they will get back to you that day, the next at the latest. With Boeing it will start a chain of emails, council and committee meetings that will take 5-10X that long. This is what holds them back. Every decision has to be approved by 50+ people. You want to do something innovative? Good luck, by the time it gets approved those innovations are outdated. Working with ex Boeing engineers, they all said the same thing. Everyone wants to do things the old way, because there is too much red tape to do it a new way.

This bureaucracy comes from taking government contracts. The more you take, the more it infects your company. It can help you grow fast and large, but if you don't watch out it will eventually control your company. Boeing was a company created by engineers, for engineers to make some of the most fabulous engineering marvels. The last 30-40 years it's where engineers go to get a pension. They have shareholders sure, but they were just riding that same government cheddar. It wasn't until it became glaringly obvious that something was wrong that they started doing anything and even then

Elon talked about this a little early on in Starship development. He didn't want to get NASA involved until after they had the majority of the design set. Because otherwise they would make constant demands for changes, like a new launch tower to accommodate 1-2 launches.

 

Maybe a trimmer cybertruck to pick up all of the samples?

 

CT's gonna need major mods for out of atmo stuff. Wayyy more radiative cooling, vac rated tires, etc.

 

I expect it would be far from “stock” since if robotic it wouldn’t need any human interfaces or accoutrements. In name only might be closer to the actuality. But it does at least seem a plausible way to recover the samples.

 

In name only, really, maybe some parts of the 'exoskeleton' design might be kept.. but let's start with the basics. Battery bank conditioning will be radically redesigned. Liquid loop might freeze (or take up too much energy to keep unfrozen, though mass helps in that regards) and will likely need additional insulation, and perhaps radiators if it needs to do heat rejection. Ditto for motors - though the existing ones are likely wayyy overpowered for need. Moving parts will need better dust protection/rejection that will last multiple years. Computing will need better rad protection and more redundancy. EVA-optional controls could be kept and 'drive by wire' means that it's not going to be radically different, but it will need some method to handle suited occupants (or be designed for pressurization, or both). Charging port dust validation/redesign, maybe redundancy as well. Sensors, ditto.

Whole thing might be cybertruck shaped, might use some CT parts, but.. the CT just isn't up to the task without major mods to just about every system.

 

It all depends what their intended purpose would be. I doubt it would be intended as a long term vehicle or for human occupancy. Maybe go get the samples from Curiosity. In which case you just throw an optimus in the passenger seat, and go for a drive. Set up a collapsible solar array in the bed, or just do like Curiosity and go nuclear.

My bets are its going to be more of a demonstrating mission. Will most likely have some form of habitat that can support human life. And some processing center to create water, air and fuel. Most likely a robotic bulldozer to collect the ice for processing. I don't think they'd be able to launch crew 2 years after that if they didn't already have something set up there.


I'm also betting though, that everything gets pushed back 2 years and the Moon becomes their 2026 goal.

 

Sure. No humans, delete human controls. CT is all drive by wire anyway. One way trip, short duration get samples - you'll still need to operate a distance on the surface, which means the pack needs to be conditioned if you want it to be usable. Which again, means needing to make sure it works in (near) vacuum after a couple months of transit. Really doubt they'll go with a RTG, and again, solar just means not needing to deal with recharge, but limits range a lot. Optimus has plenty of space rating issues, too, tbh. Assuming they have a usable build that can work with 30 minute delays, by then.

That said, you can't sample return with a single starship, unless the starship deploys a (payload) return capsule that can go from Mars surface > Earth entry. Starship can hypothetically land (with in orbit refuelling for trans mars injection), but it will land with empty tanks needing ISRU to refill. And you can't get to Mars at all until you can show you can refill starship in orbit.

They have a contract that will pay them if they're in place for the orion 3 landings. And for steps along the way. Whereas a 'go to mars' would be purely self funded.

Pretty sure they'll get their moon stuff done (which will also, coincidentally prove out in orbit refuel), and get part of their program funded on the gov dime anyway. 2030's a much more reasonable date, even if SpX was going to self fund some stuff.

 

With NASA all about redundancy, and with the idea that 2 commercial launch providers promotes competition; I wonder what the path forward for Starliner is? Obviously delays, but I wonder if NASA will open up the bidding again for yet another commercial contract for human rated launches?

Fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel and some experiments. Maybe a wheel of cheese.

 

Too bad Sierra Space is taking so long to get DC flying…

Unrelated:
Missed this little nugget
https://x.com/commercial_crew/status/1840784654313418914?s=46

 

Aren't they just focused on the cargo DC right now? And maybe have a crew variant in a decade?

 

Yes, they are focused on the cargo version.

Once it is up and running, they will build the crew variant. I'm pretty sure it won't take a decade.

 

Had to earn this one for sure...

 

I mean, Dream Chaser has been a design since the 70's. The current Dream Chaser was originally started in 2004. I can see a crew variant taking another 10 years.

 

I get that. But, knowing where they are now (after redesigns, etc.) they are relatively close.

 

They’ve been focused on the cargo version for 2+ decades. The crew varient, despite what they say, is on an indeterminable schedule…

 

Given the stop and start progress of its history and what the impact of Starship might be I'd hate to make any predictions. I think there’s a place for it both at its current small scale and for larger versions as well but the cargo version still has to fly and we don’t know how long it will take before the second cargo version gets built and flown. Time seems to fly faster than ideas, even good ones and it’s a big step going from cargo to crewed flight. The LIFE modules might be in orbit first providing a destination for those crewed DC’s.

 

I sincerely hope DC does have a spot for crewed variants. I can see it being used to shuttle (heh) astronauts to and from the Starships in orbit. Or the commercial space station, or a dry dock building the first interplanetary Starships.

 

Is there a better mission poster?