Start Up Issue

Was wondering if anyone experienced anything similar. I'll buy a beer to whoever figures it out - for real!

Startup issue as filmed today - the worst it's been yet with the extended crank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VuoGOG4tQ&ab_channel=PeterNagy

Started about 10 months ago at about 59k miles. Currently sitting at 69,777. Initially, it was just a small shudder when starting up most people wouldn't notice. But it has been getting progressively worse and escalated to this point in the past week.

Notice the struggle around 500-600rpm - this was it up until it has gotten worse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXo__MqzqpM&ab_channel=PeterNagy

• First thought was battery getting old (4 years). The battery was replaced about 10k miles ago (at which point this was not a big issue yet). But no effect. The battery currently charges perfectly fine.
• I get gas wherever I'm at when I reach half a tank - seems gas agnostic (shell, 711, costco, etc)
• Spark plugs changed in the course of maintenance at about 62k miles or 7k miles ago - no effect.
• Issue is temperature agnostic - the same whether it's -10 or 60 degrees.
• Fuel pump has been replaced at 20k miles under a recall. Once running, truck doesn't stall, idles perfectly fine, and doesn't stutter when accelerating.
• First start up is rough as seen in the video. If you drive it even for 2-3 minutes, the following start up is normal - even more clean than the second video ('Bad Start 0')
• If the truck sits for 2-3 hours, the next start up will be rough (perhaps not as bad as when sitting overnight) - but gets worse with time.

Called Toyota Dealership today and made an appointment for the next week. The initial reaction of the advisor was a dirty throttle body. So I just took it apart and cleaned it - it wasn't very dirty at all so I don't think it was the issue. Reset the computer.

Will report back tomorrow whether she starts up well but I'm not crossing my fingers. My running theory is that the gas pressure is slowly bleeding - maybe a torn O ring during the pump recall replacement, or something to that sense.

The plan is to start her up as normal in the am and see if the throttle body cleaning helped. Then in the evening, cycle the start button on/off a few times to build up pressure and see how the start goes.

Any thoughts/suggestions on how to further troubleshoot /experience with this would be much appreciated!

 

How did each spark plug look?

 

Long story short I don't know - had it done at a shop.

At that point, the stutter was the same before and after the new spark plugs - no change at all.

 

I’d be buying some nice brand spankin’ new RIPP, MSD or Standard Ignition Blue Streak ignition coils

 

If the problem gets worse the longer the truck sits you’ve most likely got a head gasket seeping by. If you have someone stand behind the truck on a cold start they may see some water vapor come out while the truck is struggling to come up to idle speed. Dealership will perform a leak down on the cylinders but it may be gradual enough to not be caught or they may find one cylinder is leaking by enough to catch it. Try pulling the plugs after you haven’t started it for a day or two and see if one is damp. Had this exact thing happen on my 2015. Good luck.

 

Thats strange, i have a kinda similar issue but my weird sounds are right as the engine turns over. Once the starter is done its job the sound is gone. But yours is after l. However that first video it sounds kinda similar to mine. The dealership cant figure out what my issue is tho. I hope they figure out what yours is.
https://youtu.be/Oy-jmw3VZBo

 

Had something similar. it wasn't very consistent when the truck would do it. threw in some lucasoil injector cleaner a long while back and all has been good since. Clean starts. I also stopped using my k&n filter. (related? not sure but it is a variable i changed).

 

I'm dealing with the same issue right now. For me it first started a couple of months ago. It was intermittent at first and then last week the truck was a no start. Took 3 attempts to start. Took it to the dealer. They kept it overnight, did a pressure test and checked for a leaky injector. Found everything to be within spec. Said it was bad fuel and most likely water in the gas.

Dealer threw some fuel addictive in the gas tank and told me to drive until empty and then fill up. Report back if the issue persists.

Was fine for 2 days and then started happening again. I added a bottle of STP water remover yesterday and went for a little drive. Will wait and see I guess. I called the dealer to say the issue is still there but they haven't returned my call. I doubt they will.

 

Update: Throttle body cleaning didn't help, as sorta expected. Same issue this morning, very rough start with extended crank

Already ran an injector cleaner through it and that didn't help. I do have an aftermarket air filter but nothing fancy, so I don't think that's it. been using the same brand off of Amazon the whole life of the truck

That's rough. How many miles on your truck? I will definitely post an update on Tuesday once they have a chance to look at it

 

Just shy of 100k km. About 60k miles. The jabronis at the dealer had 3 plugs out during the process to diagnose a misfire at 1, 3 and 6. If I had known they were going that far I'd would have had them replace the plugs. May look into doing that if the problem keeps up.

I asked about changing the plugs at the last service (96k km) and the service guys looked at me like I was out of my mind. Told me they're good for 192k km and the Toyota maintenance schedule is wrong. lol. I asked the parts guy for the spark plug specs and he tells me they're good for 100k km.

If it warms up I may tackle the spark plug change myself. Or find a good garage. It's been -10 and colder here for the last week or more.

Anyways OP. Hope you get your truck issue sorted.

 

hmmm. Interesting. I would say, try checking plugs and replacing as needed. I did have a sitaution a while back where one of the plugs was definitely covered in oil and it was loose. so ir eplaced that and the boot.

Also, quality fuel makes a difference. I only use the tier 1 stuff.

 

Head gaskets won't typically leak internally while the truck is cold and sitting. The system needs pressure for it to leak.

 

Interesting, so it started at about the same mileage. Did you have your fuel pump replaced under recall?
And thanks, I'll def let you know if they figure out the issue. The only difference is that I did have my plugs changed... didn't help. and yes, the manual says 60k miles but I've read that they last 100k miles no isse. I planned on keeping this truck forever so figured I would keep up with recommended maintenance.

already replaced but we will see if they check them on Tuesday

Coolant level is fine and as far as I know was never topped off - at least past 20k miles. So I think if it was a leaky gasket I would have noticed by now (been 10k miles with this issue getting progressively worse)

 

Fuel pressure regulator? Or just fuel pressure in general?

 

Might be MAP sensor. Obviously guessing here like everyone else, but if your fuel pump, plugs etc were replaced with non-defective parts, the MAP sensor is worth a check.

 

ooh. not a bad idea. give it a clean.

 

Exactly what I'm thinking. To me it seems like the fuel pressure slowly bleeds off when the car is not running.

The plan is to cycle on/off a few times (push button, without starting the engine) in about three hours when I have to drive and see if she fires up normally.

Otherwise I'll hopefully know more on Tuesday

 

If that was the case there would be stuttering when accelerating, rough idle, etc., or am I wrong? I don't have those symptoms. Don't want to touch more things than I reasonably need to before I take it to the dealership, but thanks for the idea!

 

When your truck is idling does the tachometer needle jump around a bit?

 

Yes. Fuel pump recall done in January 2021 at about 70k km I guess.

I also had planned on keeping this truck but dealer made me a great offer on a trade so I ordered a 2023 MGM TRD Sport.

I have warranty up to 5 yr / 120k km so it's not all bad as long as dealer can diagnose the issue. My 23 should be here by mid summer and my warranty will last until December. I'd feel bad though if the issue got passed along to the new owner.