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States to begin drug testing for welfare recipients.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Warhorseforever, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Jan 5, 2012 at 1:46 PM
    #61
    Kangonia

    Kangonia I'm proficient with both chainsaw and shotgun...

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    x2... In this country if you wanna do drugs for free, you better be one sexy bitch... Otherwise, get a job and pay for your own shit!
     
  2. Jan 5, 2012 at 1:49 PM
    #62
    wileyC

    wileyC Well-Known Member

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    ...yes, but some loss of liberty is inevitable for those w/ a dependancy on the .gov.. ..and a peril of the welfare-state, ...either we get control over it, or it will consume us and all that is good.. as for SS, etc, ..(for the most part) - those are "earned" funds, unlike welfare, and thus no reason to be subjected to the same oversight..
     
  3. Jan 5, 2012 at 1:51 PM
    #63
    dand

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    A big thumbs up on drug testing the freeloaders .:D
     
  4. Jan 5, 2012 at 2:12 PM
    #64
    4WD

    4WD cRaZy oLdmAn

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    True, but it still comes out of the same kitty, & as far as loss of liberties, this has been going on for awhile now.

    As for your statement of "earned funds" is only half right, there's plenty out there on SSI that have contributed little or nothing to the system.

    I still think the old "workfare" they had in CA. at one time is a good,more realistic step towards some sort of reform

    If you are able bodied enough to do some community clean up or other duty that would usually require public works employees then you recieve benefits, you'd punch in at a required place to do so ( jobsite) daily just like a regular job, do your task, repeat & if you are a "no show" your done unless a Dr.'s note validating your absense is present

    It isn't perfect but I think it'd be on the right track
     
  5. Jan 5, 2012 at 2:15 PM
    #65
    MonkeyProof

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    and then the next thing you know..gotta submit a urine test, just to renew your drivers license..or maybe even to register to vote. just wait till we get the national ID card finalized.....once it starts, where's it gonna end!?
     
  6. Jan 5, 2012 at 2:26 PM
    #66
    4WD

    4WD cRaZy oLdmAn

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I approve of this post

    Ahhh yes MP, great minds think alike !!!... ;);)

    As for the masses "There's none so blind as those who will not see."
     
  7. Jan 5, 2012 at 2:33 PM
    #67
    t4daddy

    t4daddy Well-Known Member

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    On drugs.
     
  8. Jan 5, 2012 at 2:59 PM
    #68
    upthemaiden

    upthemaiden Well-Known Member

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    I work for the dept. of welfare in Pennsylvania, so I'll just toss out a few observations that might focus some opinions, regardless of what direction they're in, as I really don't care which way you feel, as long as you can express it productively.

    There are only 2 main reasons you can receive welfare, 1 is having children, and the other is having some kind of mental/physical issue that prohibits your ability to obtain or keep employment. There are work requirements for people who have children, they need to be in school, have a job, or again have some outside factor that keeps them from working like a disability or domestic violence issues. This type of welfare is supposed to be limited to 5 years in your lifetime. The 2nd reason is some kind of disability that keeps you from working, so unfortunately all of the "get a job you lazy shit" comments you hear from people are pointless here because these are the people coming in saying "I can't work!" and have a doctor to back up thier story.

    The issues with these is despite the 5 year time limit, there are extended time benefits that are supposed to be for people with certain circumstances, again domestic violence, or someone who has obtained employment but just isn't earning enough to get by, but at least shows you they’re trying. That whole setup is just poorly planned and most of the time people go past their 5 year time limit, are put onto extended benefits and don't even know it happened, before you know it they’ve been on for 10 years and they’re bringing their pregnant 18 year old down to the office to apply on their own. Solution to that one is to just make a 5 year limit, no exceptions, 5 years and you're done with it. 1 problem solved. My other general opinion is what however many kids you have when you first apply for benefits, is the max you can get help for. If you're on welfare for 5 years, and squeeze out 3 more kids in that time, I don't feel that your welfare benefits should go up for 3 extra kids. It's one thing to come in and say "I need help", but another to be receiving help and just continue to make your living situation worse. Again, that last part is just MY opinion.

    2nd issue is the doctors and what people are willing to consider a disability. I see endless medical forms from doctors saying people can't work because of things like adhd, depression, obesity(and of course the complimentary degenerative joint disease in their knees from carrying around all that weight), bi-polar, and a few others. Now yes, these are serious problems for people, no question about it, but doctors are just labeling child after child adhd and bipolar, and when you see constant patterns of depressed parent with 4 adhd children, all 5 of who are collecting social security($3370 untaxed cash per month!), it just screams "my children were raised by bad parenting and the television". So yes, these are real medical issues for people, but they need seriously cut back by doctors who just need to grow a pair and say "look, here's some medication to help you focus, but I'm not signing this paper saying you're permanently disabled".

    There is a category of help for people who have drug and alcohol issues, but they're limited to 9 months out of your lifetime and you have to be active in drug treatment. At the end of 9 months you're done with that excuse so that one is pretty clean cut.

    The last thing to keep in mind are the "jobs". It's a great thought to say "you show up and pick up garbage on the side of the road if you want your check" because technically it's a job, people are working for the money, and all seems good with the world, but it's just not a realistic plan. The main issue is the lack of motivation. Best case scenario is you have a supervisor at the site who sees someone isn't working hard and tells them "you're honestly not trying, just go home, you're not getting your check anymore", but really, it's the state, and they're never going to turn someone away long term. The very next morning that same person is going to be sitting in the welfare office applying again, a worker is going to send them back to the same site, they're going to do the bare minimum, and it's going to be the same exact cycle. It's the same way with the current programs that are meant to give people tools to find a job. They're supposed to go and work on resumes, do job searches, get their GED, but people stop showing up, make up a lame excuse, they might be lying, it might be true, how are you really gonna know, they come back, they get re-referred. Mcdonalds can tell someone to go home and forget they exist, but you're never going to find a politician who wants his face printed on the front page of the newspaper next to a story about a baby who starved to death because his strict welfare ban policy was part of some child not having food, whether it was the parents fault or not(when have you EVER heard a dog attack story on the news where they even bothered to mention the dogs owner, news companies aren’t out there to tell you the real story, they’re there to tell you a sensationalized story, and a politicians primary job is to look good). As long as that's the case, there's no way the workers can be strict enough to tell a recipient that they don't look like they're trying, and they're banned from welfare.
    Final though, welfare is supposed to be a temporary benefit until someone CAN find a job, so if you start paying people to shovel snow and pick up garbage, where’s there motivation to go apply at mcdonalds, you’ve just turned picking up garbage into their job, they’re not state employees, and they’re going to consider themselves ‘state employees’ for the rest of their life. You’re gonna say “why don’t you go get a real job?” and they’re just gonna say “I have a job, I pick up garbage”. That whole idea is nothing more than a way to make people feel like their tax dollar are being better spent, but they’re really not, and personally I’d rather be told the truth even if it’s bad news, than have a politician tell me what I want to hear.

    … and just to make sure everyone gets their fair share of the blame. Don’t forget about Social Security. I have 30 years until I can retire and I’ve already received a notice from Social Security telling me that by the time I retire I will only be able to receive 70% of what I’m eligible for because they’re going broke. You’re telling me 30 years in advance that you’re gonna have a money issue, and don’t think that’s enough time to fix it?! The only thing in my mind worse than wasting tax dollars, is wasting the money you’re taking from me to be set aside for when I’m retired, and blowing it on a bunch of people who can use depression and adhd to collect social security from the time they’re a child until the day they die. Welfare pays out a max of $205 to a single person in PA($316 for 2, etc,) this really isn’t glamour money for people to live on compared to the $674 that social security pays. That’s the money that’s really gonna hurt you in the future.
     
  9. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:20 PM
    #69
    Lost_Humanity

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    Bumper Dent Mod
    I didn't quote it all because of the length -- but this is EXACTLY what I was going to say without my snark.

    +1 for you sir. And that's a tough gig.
     
  10. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:37 PM
    #70
    4WD

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    I'm just gonna copy this little bit of your post.....


    Final though, welfare is supposed to be a temporary benefit until someone CAN find a job, so if you start paying people to shovel snow and pick up garbage, where’s there motivation to go apply at mcdonalds, you’ve just turned picking up garbage into their job, they’re not state employees, and they’re going to consider themselves ‘state employees’ for the rest of their life. You’re gonna say “why don’t you go get a real job?” and they’re just gonna say “I have a job, I pick up garbage”. That whole idea is nothing more than a way to make people feel like their tax dollar are being better spent, but they’re really not, and personally I’d rather be told the truth even if it’s bad news, than have a politician tell me what I want to hear.

    Well that may be how it rolls in PA. but your statement above is pretty flawed

    you think having a recipient do road side work (or other community function/service) to maintain their benefits is going to be more expensive than a regular civil service crew ?? think again , in CA Caltrans workers that perform this same task (cleaning/picking up debris) makes about 40k + a year plus full benefits per employee, just a guess on my part but smart money says I'm not too far off.

    & your statement about these people now think they're state employees, well in a way they are. whats wrong with that ?? Its not a "make them feel important" kinda thing, if it makes someone feel a little better about their situation what the hell is the harm ? Not everyone on welfare feels good about it or is looking to make it a career choice.

    you say "Lack of motivation" to go get a "real job" at Mcdonalds ?? thats obsurd thinking on your part. The motivation is simple, no work, no benefits, no money, no food etc; How hard is it to make sure those who are required to work for benefits show up on time at a designated place ?

    Not rocket science, you show up. you "punch in" at the beginning of the day & "punch out" at the end just like a "real" job, you don't show up as required without a valid reason, you get "fired" like a "real job" You seem to imply this is unrealistic & silly, I'm having a problem understanding your logic here. I DO agree that welfare was intended to be a "temporary" solution though.
     
  11. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:38 PM
    #71
    Tigahshark

    Tigahshark Senior NEWBIE

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    That's a good point Cody, because the kids will pay for their parents idiotic actions. Although I think it is a great idea to drug test anyone under state or government assistance, because kids are involved it becomes a touchy subject. Heck I feel welfare people should account for everything they buy with the money even parents who recieve child support checks, to make sure they buy what they need and not stupid foolish crap
     
  12. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:40 PM
    #72
    DanglingFury

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    Welfare is to easy to get. Plain and simple. You shouldn't get free money just because you're lazy. The world we live in is fucked up. All of us here know that. As for the rest of the country... Well, who knows.

    End thread. :homer:
     
  13. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:40 PM
    #73
    Tigahshark

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    Wow x2!
     
  14. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:41 PM
    #74
    4WD

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    As well as all gov. employees should be required to test for toxins, and do it randomly
     
  15. Jan 5, 2012 at 3:44 PM
    #75
    Tigahshark

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    :amen:
     
  16. Jan 5, 2012 at 4:00 PM
    #76
    Lost_Humanity

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    So you're suggesting taking those Caltrans workers out of the workforce and replacing them with Welfare recipients? Or are you suggesting adding Welfare recipients to the state payroll at the mandatory Federal and State Minimum Wage? Because I see neither of those solutions being positive for the unemployment rate and/or CA budget deficit.

    This is kinda true. But we have to go back to the minimum wage problem. Sure, I guess they can work 25 hours at $9.25/hour to get to ~$240. I'm sure many people would love to do that -- provided they don't have the aforementioned "disability." If you read his post, that's the only way other than kids that you can collect Welfare in PA (and a lot of other states). You have to have a diagnosis saying you cannot work -- not just that you don't want to.

    That's not what he was saying at all. He was saying that when you are getting money for doing nothing, there's a lack of motivation to get a job doing something. You're arguing the same point here.

    Again, in PA the only way you can get hardship assistance (Welfare and/or Social Security) is to be low-income with children or have a doctor's validated medical condition stating that you CANNOT WORK. It's not a question of whether or not you perform you duties adequately, it's about the people who grease the system because they can get their checks for free by claiming a disability.

    The problem lies in the enforcement of the regulations and holding doctors accountable for their diagnosis of patients.
     
  17. Jan 5, 2012 at 4:01 PM
    #77
    ruler1

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    They already have this in Florida. All it has done was drive up the price of clean urine. You should see how many people milk the system. The welfare system works. It rewards the lowest level of society for staying right where they are. If you think about voters it's like the computers growing people for power in the matrix.

    It blows my mind when I'm checking out behind a family using food stamps. I look at their cart and see name brand items. I look at my cart and see great value Walmart brand. Then I look at my paycheck and see where I am paying for them. I see people who work under the table and pay no tax. I look at my daughter I can barely afford. I look at their 3+kids and pregnant girlfriend. I don't qualify for aid and the system and I have to pay so much in hospital bills after my insurance to cover those that simply have none.
     
  18. Jan 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM
    #78
    Tigahshark

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    This is the most important, cause I see a lot of able people out there on welfare
     
  19. Jan 5, 2012 at 4:04 PM
    #79
    jandrews

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  20. Jan 5, 2012 at 4:04 PM
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    kimo

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    I have to test to keep my job...so I think its good. If they want to sit around and collect welfare.....money out of my taxes....test em !!!
     

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