Still think TITNC3: Return of the Iceberg was peak

What did they all have in common? A larger parent company. Ford is the parent company. GM is the parent company. FCA is the parent company.

 

Yah yah yah.

Ford, GM, Chrysler (and whatever bastardization they call themselves now) are basically like Boeing. Legacy brands. They aren't going away anytime soon.

And all those companies you posted were bought by one of those three major brands.

And the Oldsmobile Hurst 442 is a chariot of a machine!

 

Ford was actually the only one not to take a bailout in 2008.

 

Ford didn't need the funds since it had already cut costs after the collapse. But they asked to be included in the bucket so they wouldn't suffer by competing with GM and Chrysler who already had subsidies. So sorta yes, sorta no.

My GF drives a Ford Escape and it's a piece of shit, so I'm also 50/50 on Ford vehicles. My pops is still driving his 7.3 with 400k miles on it.

 

Like with anything, it all depends on the vehicle and how you take care of it. My mom has a 2016 Escape and I'm not sure it has ever been to the shop outside of routine maintenance. My dad has a 2015 Colorado that has had the AC condenser replaced and just had a hose clamp rust out already, causing a major leak from the lower rad hose. I've got some trust issues with GM right now, but I loved my Mustang. Also loved my Canyon until repairs started adding up and it still wasn't fixed. Most of my coworkers have GM products and said GM products have been in and out of the shop several times for issues.

 

Right, but my point is that they were failing when they got purchased. They'd have failed if not for that. Now if you were to suggest that they're a safe investment because they'll get snapped up by one of the big three, that I could agree with. But American car companies definitely can and do fail...it's just that these days your shares are safe even if they are on the road (haha) to failure.

 

Her Escape is a fine vehicle reliability wise, it's just a piece of shit from a design standpoint. It's a 2014 and the Toyota and Honda equivalents from the same years were miles ahead in terms of design.

 

i'd prob buy a new F-150 over a new tundra

 

Right, and my point is, we're already passed that point. The "big 3" are basically untouchable now. That's what billions of dollars of lobbying and bailouts gets you. The heart of blue collar America is tied to those brands. They aren't going anywhere, and there's no small American manufacturers left unless you count Tesla, and the guy that owns Tesla is the richest guy on the planet.

 

Ford is definitely one of those brands which has to grow on me. I think almost everything they make is ugly when I first see it. I don't mind the new F150, but it's more of an evolution than a revolution. Can't stand the look of the Ranger though.

 

There's a couple of startup EV brands, but they're usually backed by someone else. I.e. Rivian and Ford. I believe Tesla had a joint venture with GM when they were first starting, too.

 

Sounds like we're saying the same thing.

I wish we could have small car manufacturers again, would be nice to have some more variety, a little more innovation than we do now. I guess that could be said of anything anymore. Corporations gobble up anything that looks promising, liquidate it if they decide it's not going to be profitable enough.

Alright, time for bed.

 

For sure. But at the end of the day you have:

Tesla -- Innovator, pioneer, and leader of the charge

The big manufacturers who can afford to pivot

Everybody else who's hoping their design or company gets bought out by one of the above.


It's going to be a long time before we see another grassroots car company like Tesla start and actually challenge the status quo of vehicle manufacturing

 

No argument there

 

Ford didn't need the funds because they were hurting before GM and had already taken measures to avoid going under. They still took a loan though, and as of December they STILL owe 1.5 Billion on that loan. I used to be a huge Ford guy, but they became complacent and the only way I would take one now is if it was SUPER cheap. I have no faith in them. They are no longer a car company, they are a dying piggy bank for the execs. I mean the mustang makes engine noises through the speakers to make you feel like you're driving fast... How can anyone take them seriously with ridiculous BS like that going on?

 

I take it back. I thought Tesla had converted a few GM vehicles to electric (such as the Silverado) as a concept, but apparently I don't know what I'm talking about. However, that being said, Tesla has a lot of investors and big ideas and, thus, has become larger than Toyota in terms of market capital. I do think they are pioneers. I just wish they weren't the Apple of automobiles. But, being different is how you make a name for yourself

 

Agree with all the sentiments above about Ford, but in all fairness I do have to point out that the Ford GT is a fucking masterpiece of engineering.

 

I definitely don't want to start a car manufacturer argument, but wouldn't you say that Ford not needing funds and pivoting to reduce their costs was a better business decision than GM basically twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing about it?

At the end of the day they're all culpable for bailouts.

And as for engine noise in speakers -- That's what you get with electric vehicles and boomers buying them that still think they need to hear engine noises from their muscle cars. Nevermind the fact that Tesla's base model cars will rip the teeth out of most big 3 sports cars in 1/4 miles and 0-60's

 

That Apple essence is the only reason that Tesla survived. I like the story about how he tried to sell the technology to almost every automotive manufacturer and they all told him what he wanted was not feasible. Had any of them actually taken him up on his offer, they would be a world leader by a large margin. Now they're playing catch up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrGeOHpEGk0

 

That's a little misleading. Ford borrowed money in 2008, but also borrowed more later. These were, in large part, to invest in new technologies. Ford's loan is expected to be paid off in 2022. Also, the "engine noises" you're referring to are not in every vehicle. The sound augmentation is only in the EcoBoost Mustang and EcoBoost F150. The 5.0L does not use sound augmentation. Those EcoBoost motors are nothing to laugh at either.