Stock 6x9 speakers are the lowest quality POS I’ve ever seen in my life!

I feel the same about my 2013 stock speakers....did you upgrade HU? if i just get new 6x9's up front and tweeters up top and new 6.5's for the rears with stock HU, will i hear the difference?

 

No I would like to eventually. From DAC standpoint and power supply etc it’s not really a quality bottleneck yet. You can’t hear what you can’t hear.

There is probably some corrective eq embedded in the stock unit to protect the puny speakers but haven’t been able to find specific info.

I mean until the speakers and space are optimized the head fidelity issues aren’t gonna be limiting factor. From what I’ve read the THD is inconsequential until you go up past 50 on the volume which I never will. There is more to it but not relevant right now.

you will def hear a difference. I mean you can always mess with the HU eq too. Try boosting the treble +1, mids -1, bass +1 and fade two clicks to the back and one to the right. This helped me balance asymmetry of sitting in fwd corner of cab.

I’m sure there is a sine wave sweep that someone has done to see how the Tacoma cab reacts to different frequencies. In studios you are always fighting lower mids 200-500hz (which build up to muddies hence you notch them a bit) but I don’t know enough about car spaces to be an expert yet. As far as phasing and things like that it’s probably best to stick with a matching set otherwise difference speaker brands and responses might create nulls and comb filtering. Personally idc about faithfulness of soundstage as if everything is in front of me. Being my hypocrite self, I ditched the crossover for my new focals and wired tweeters on own channels with dsp and individual gains so I could have full control over each speaker to optimize for listening position and personal tastes.

there are others here way more knowledgeable about car audio so see what they have to say.

p.s. I hate autocorrect

 

cool thanks, from what i read in a different thread..few people said a HU is a must or else keep the stock speakers. I'm kinda on a budget and wanting to get this setup

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13699046/JL-Audio-C1-690.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575R165X3/Rockford-Fosgate-R165X3.html

 

I would say def an amp before the head unit. It only pumps out like 15watts channel max or something

there is a thread for under 250 mods that has all info you will need

you could probably go to Best Buy and audition some of them to get an idea too.

 

I'd respectfully disagree. The stock headunit allows for almost no alteration of the sound in any way that would remotely be considered helpful. It's also completely devoid of any features you could call "modern". Huge power isn't needed for most people. The reality is most people don't listen to more than a few watts of power. The stock speakers, although cheap looking, are extremely efficient and make great use of the power they are given.

An aftermarket headunit should be able to pump about 20Wrms with 50W or so being the "max". Most people won't listen loud enough for that to even matter. The stock speakers will JAM on that power level. Now, if your new headunit has some level of DSP built into it then you can really start fixing the frequency response of the stock speakers. Is it a substitute for a full replacement of the speakers? No. But will it be darn good if you know how to tune. Even shitty speakers can sound pretty great with the right DSP.

However, adding an amp will just give you more power and as such, more volume. If the frequency response is trash, it will only make it louder trash.

 

Freq response is an “audible” response to measurable speaker output and the discussion is about audio not about using IG and FB features or whatever features the newest units implement. Don’t care. If the speaker chokes out the signal that directly impacts the audible frequency response.

Every speaker has its own fingerprint way way more than a DAC upgrade or stock settings on a new HU. A flat non hyped signal is all I want from a head unit in terms of audio being sent to speakers. Flat unmolested audio output is desired in high end audio. The stock is fine up until 50%. I want to hear how music was mixed ultimately (and a HU is way more $$$ than speakers anyway) Almost all decent class D amps have dsp., you don’t need it from a head unit.

...more watts and better speakers give you more clean headroom. Harmonic distortion and phase issues are some of the most important factors in quality of sound over some static eq settings or gimmicks built into a new HU. crap speakers definitely amplify both true but the starting signal is good enough stock. However, like shown empirically the stock performance doesn’t drop off until you go over 50, which hardly anyone will do. The stock speaker are 20watt rated 4ohm trash, defending them is absurd in terms of faithful reproduction.

I am arguing clean power and speaker audio fidelity, you are arguing Hu features.

 

just wondering cause I'm looking to upgrade, The stock HU seems to be good enough(maybe not feature wise) if you got the right hardware after that? Case in point OEM Audio Plus, I've yt'd and found their DSP amp w/sub kinda seemed to be fairly okay with the stock speakers. Then adding the entire ensemble of their speakers, they say it's even more amazing.

 

yes i would argue the stock head is good enough if using below 50% volume, which you def will be if using an amp afterwards. A dedicated amp is almost always gonna be better than one built into a full feature HU where there are so many moving parts.

I can’t think of any all-one-unit in any realm of professional audio that trumps component style setups

now if you are pushing even 30-40 watts into stock 20 watt speaker they will be toast in no time and sound like ass on their way out. Volume and the way you hear freqs (look up fletcher munson and logarithmic volume) are not linear so you need something solid from whisper to scream and clean in between.

Did you ever go in a pro studio and notice that you can listen to music at a way louder volume and it doesn’t hurt your ears? That’s mainly good amps, power and good speakers, minimal distortion, great room treatment (and maybe drugs). Even coming out of a shit cellphone playing an mp3 you will notice how nice it sounds. A 1000 dollar iPhone isn’t gonna sound much better than a 2001 Motorola razor. No one says, play it out of my phone it will sound better.

now take the most expensive console and DAC, we are talking like 200k setup, and run it through the equivalent of Tacoma speakers and you will wet yourself (not in a good way)

it’s like that kinda.

 

I like the stock speakers lots of good service from them

 

Any speaker can be fine based on the expectations of the ear. If they serve your purpose and give enough sound and clarity for you, stick with them and save the money or use if for other mods. Myself, my first job years ago was in car audio sales and my brother was an installer at the second store. Ive also worked in a couple of recording sudios so i've mostly been around music and just desire a little more from my vehicles and home. When i was spending 4-5hrs at a time in my car on weekly trips, I definitely needed a more defined system with good staging and presence. At the shop back then, we often used our cars as demo cars to show what could be done at different budget levels for our customers.
I do think if you made a small change to some better speakers even in the 200-400$ price range for all 4, you would feel like you had a new truck. Or just try changing out the fronts to a better speaker.

 

You miss the point entirely. The point is many headunits have the ability to tune the sound in such a way as to compensate for deficiencies in less than stellar speaker drivers. Those are the features I'm talking about and they are arguably the most important feature in a good sounding system.

Actually, there are very few amps that have true onboard DSP. Unless you're genuinely calling simple HP filters and bass knobs DSP...if so, I'm worried about you.

DAC upgrades are a waste of money until you're talking about $10,000 speakers in a home. Even then, most people won't hear a difference. So we agree on that. However, the "fingerprint" from a speaker that you're talking about is frequency response. It's nothing magical. A speaker needs to be capable of playing across its respective frequency spectrum with minimal spl (output) deviation and without distortion. Typically, we only see large amounts of distortion when a speaker is being asked to play BEYOND its limits. For example, if you crank up the volume and play a bunch of 30hz heavy bass tracks the stock speakers are going to perform poorly because they won't have enough xmax to play within spec. You may also have a situation where the stock system has a harsh peak (maybe in the treble region) that is simply fatiguing to listen to and you have a song you like that just HAMMERS that frequency range...you're going to HATE how it sounds.

And that's where proper DSP features come in.

It's ideal to run a separate DSP unit but on the cheap, you can do pretty well with a decent headunit that has some of those features. If you can high pass the stock speakers so they aren't required to play frequencies that will harm them or cause them to distort, you're already doing a LOT better. Some headunits even have a "loudness" function that is intended to boost the frequencies where stock speakers tend to have weak response. With 10+ bands of EQ per channel you can really start to fix a lot of the peaks and dips in response. Filling the gaps where the speakers are deficient and taming the peaks will gain you a lot IF you know what you're doing. But most importantly you're tailoring the sound to the transfer function of the car.

New speakers give you the ability to play a broader frequency spectrum without having to cut stuff down (like bass) to avoid distortion. It's great to have capable speakers but ultimately, throwing in a set of speakers and hoping for the best isn't a smart move. The same set of speakers thrown into a Tacoma don't necessarily sound the same as speakers that were in an IS300 (I learned this at an early age). Every now and again you get lucky and find a set of speakers that just WORK for a particular car and don't need much alteration to the sound but those situations are few and far between.

And yeah, I've been doing this a while. I wrote a good portion of the stickies in this forum about 11 years ago and I design/sell home audio speakers.

 

Uh oh shots fired!

Speakers do indeed have fingerprint, frequency response isn’t the end all be all otherwise every speaker with a flat eq would sound the same. Freq curves are a snap shot. I am worried that you believe this. Clearly you should know better.

This is kind of a straw man flex because I’m not even arguing the points you are making, mostly which are true.

Here we have an expert on record claiming that cheap five dollar 6x9 speakers are better than the head unit in terms of weakest link. That the head unit imparts more color on the sound then the speakers. So wrong. Yikes. Yes shit is sticky, what else? Gotta check those stickies, must be a lot of hype in them. You showed your hand too fast!

don’t listen to me, listen to experts:

https://www.infotainment.com/blogs/...-head-units-and-their-effect-on-sound-quality

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Fx071LDCAZ4/learn/SQ/12_car_tips.html

 

Look, wasn't trying to get into it with you but if you're going to come at me like that you deserve to be put in your place. Frequency response is without a doubt the most important factor regarding accurate sound reproduction. The "sound color" you speak of is called timbre. And anyone that understands sound knows they're simply harmonics. It's not magic. If you can reproduce those harmonics from the recording (as well as the fundamental) accurately, you get good sound. Period.

I'm not saying the OEM headunit doesn't offer a pure signal. It's probably adequate as long as you don't use the bass and treble adjustments, but I'd have to throw an oscilloscope on it to verify. But signal purity isn't even remotely an issue these days. A $25 ChromeCast audio has signal purity so good you'd never be able to tell the difference between that or an ultra high end headunit. That makes signal clarity and extremely basic function and pretty much irrelevant since the majority of sources sound the same. Being able to take a clean signal, pump it through speakers, and then CORRECT the issues caused by both the speakers and the vehicle's interior geometry IS what I'm talking about. That's DSP. Most people would see dramatically better results with that approach rather than just dumping $1,000 on speakers and hoping for the best because you have zero control over the sound. Ever notice why nearly all home theater receivers have some form of measurement mic included (YPAO, Audyssey, DIRAC Live)? It's because everyone's rooms are different and most people's speakers are total trash but you can correct a LOT of that and make it sound good with proper tuning.

I don't even know why I'm explaining this because you'll never understand a word of it. I guess I'm just posting for the benefit of others in case someone else is reading this thread.

 

Well I certainly appreciate this thread! It’s informative and pretty entertaining so thank you guys! I’m also researching on which way to go with replacing/upgrading the Taco’s audio. I came from a leased Benz with a terrific Burmester audio system. Pretty noticeable difference in SQ and SPL to say the least!

 

Italian stallion, there is a new sheriff in town. You threw the first punch with your gibberish babble and attacked me. All good I know your type, lots of ego minimal science. You are out of your league. Simply. I design dsp for major audio company. PhD engineering with emph on applied physics. 3 patents. 25 audio circuits in production. Only person in this forum I personally encountered who is the truth is Destin, a humble spirit.

Timbre pronounced “Tamber”? Wowwwww.

Step back into retirement or govt handout you are out of your league and cornered yourself.

you are skating backwards like Tanya Harding. You are talking in circles like Don Rickles. Relax, everything is ok we are friends.

I play dumb so guys like you can show their colors.

Italian stallion defender of 5 dollar speakers.

Welcome to the lion’s den old man. I will replace your legacy sticky threads with science. Let’s drink a beer when COVID is over and hug it out.

 

And you're exceptionally good at it. You've definitely found your calling.

 

love you kisses for my pony. You have been shrunken from a slice of pizza to the size of a crouton. If squirrels could talk they would tell you to stop stealing acorns.

your argument is the Peter Dinklage of arguments.

mini me dunks on you on a 5ft rim.

 

I just have a couple little things to wait on before I can finish up the rear half doors. Have the Mille pros coaxial in the back components up front. JL8w3v3 sub. Next phase is power upgrade but I have to collect some more tools to build cables and stuff then it will be ready for the new alternator and battery. With that I can power a large mono block amp to drive one large sub that I can get the bone rattling lows out of. I was thinking RF but a dude in another thread has all but convinced me to save for longer and get a JL13. But that will be down the road a bit. I ran the stock system for years without any complaints or problems. I mean there is always room for improvement but I was happy with them for a long time. It’s been a pretty fun upgrade so far but it gets out of hand pretty fast I think I’m in it for about 2500 at this point and haven’t even gotten to the expensive components yet.

 

Hows that JL 8 sub treating you at the moment. My plan is to go with one 8" sub actually but im trying to determine which model but that will be later down the road after i finish deciding on my other pieces. I think i'll be picking up some Hertz Energy components for the front but i need to decide on my headunit as well. Any pics of your setup?

 

What amplifier are you running right now for the sub? You must be planning to run a ton of power if you're upgrading the alternator. Class-D amps are efficient to the point the stock alt should be fine unless you're running an SPL comp vehicle.

Also, where does the JL sub fall short for you? Not quite enough output? Is that enclosure sealed or ported and what's the internal volume?

Yeah post some pictures of what you have. Especially interested in the enclosure and how it's oriented.