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Strange noises after adding 3" lift

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by geoandrew, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Oct 23, 2011 at 2:11 PM
    #1
    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    Long story short: Installed 3" Tuff country lift on 2011 regular cab 4x4. Roaring noise between 55-65 mph, loud grinding noise between thrusting/holdback. Took to dealership - they replaced transmission, transfer case, rear axle (did not fix the problem) . Bottom line: lift kit creates too large an angle between drive shaft and differential and that is why i hear all the unpleasant noises.

    Fixing the problem: I noticed that by adding 500 lbs (4-wheeler) in the truck bed mashes the springs down so that the angle is no longer harsh between the drive shaft and differential and waa laa, the grinding noise goes away but the roar between 55-65 mph is still there but not quite as loud.

    Theory: I believe the centerline of rotation of the differential and CL of rotation of the transmission are not parallel, came from the factory. The only way to adjust this alignment is to add shims to the rear axle (2-3 deg) and rotate the pumpkin up so that it is more parallel to the transmission. U-joints differ from constant velocity joints in that they are variable velocity joints. The acceleration profile of a u-joint looks like a sine wave, so if the input and output rotational centerline of the boxes connected by the driveshaft are not parallel, then the u-joints get out of phase and eat each other up and make lots of noise doing it.

    I think i can devise a tool to measure how parallel the centerlines are that my drive shaft connects to and correct it with shims, or get it back to factory tolerance.

    Anyone else noticed this? I think it is a regular cab (short coupled) problem. The longer beds have a 2-piece driveshaft and the same lift wont create as large an angle and may not cause a problem.
     
  2. Oct 23, 2011 at 2:15 PM
    #2
    ajohnson

    ajohnson Glamour Shot

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    Yes you have discovered a problem that a lot of members here know about. Toytec has a driveshaft carrier bearing drop kit as well as degree shims for the rear axle.
     
  3. Oct 23, 2011 at 2:26 PM
    #3
    jpmorrisvb

    jpmorrisvb Well-Known Member

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    You didn't state so but, the dealership didn't replace transmission, x-fer case, rear axle at their cost did they?

    As far as the 500 dead weight ... it doesn't really solve the problem .... sort of like turning the radio up to drown out the "ticking" .... got to be a better way.

    Sorry, I have no advice (except to return it to stock height), just questions.
     
  4. Oct 23, 2011 at 2:50 PM
    #4
    Tacoma Mike

    Tacoma Mike 42 Year Toyota Master/ASE Master Tech.

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    Unfortunately I'm sure they did. Thousands of dollars wasted. I have one at the shop now. Comes in complaining of a vibration. We don't even touch it.
    I'm waiting for the day Toyota cracks down on this stuff. It's coming.
     
  5. Oct 23, 2011 at 3:08 PM
    #5
    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    Yep, they covered the whole 3 weeks of swapping out everything but the engine. Couldn't believe it. I told them it was all in the rear differential but they had a different plan.

    As for the 500 lb dead weight. All that proves to me is that the noise is caused by the harsh angle made by the drive shaft to the diff when not loaded. later on i state that shims will lessen the angle but only if I can maintain parallel lines otherwise i will just be creating an new problem.
     
  6. Oct 23, 2011 at 3:25 PM
    #6
    ajohnson

    ajohnson Glamour Shot

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  7. Oct 23, 2011 at 3:48 PM
    #7
    jpmorrisvb

    jpmorrisvb Well-Known Member

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    Okay ... maybe I missed something here ... who installed the lift?
     
  8. Oct 23, 2011 at 5:50 PM
    #8
    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    I did
     
  9. Oct 23, 2011 at 5:58 PM
    #9
    especk

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    Reg cabs dont have a carrier bearing. Shims will help. My truck does this too after I lifted it. I just deal with the noise. As annoying as it is, I havent heard of any problems actually caused by whatever is making the noise.
     
  10. Oct 23, 2011 at 6:08 PM
    #10
    jpmorrisvb

    jpmorrisvb Well-Known Member

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    So this brings me back to ... why did Toyota replace everything at their expense?
     
  11. Oct 23, 2011 at 6:10 PM
    #11
    Tacoma Mike

    Tacoma Mike 42 Year Toyota Master/ASE Master Tech.

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    Cause they were STUPID !!!!!!!!!!
    :frusty: :goingcrazy: :smack:
     
  12. Oct 23, 2011 at 6:45 PM
    #12
    05bctacoma

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    DITTO: (2005- DC 6ft box) lifted 1.5" up front, 1" in the rear plus diff drop. get the noise between 40-70 km/hr. Goes away when put in 4X4??? WTF. Tried the carrier bearing drop. After 600kms and enough of the noise I took it out the front only today...voila NO MORE NOISE... WTF
     
  13. Oct 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM
    #13
    Yoytoda

    Yoytoda The Little Truck That Could

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    60k on the odo with the grinding nasty noises...

    no problems at all.

    when i chaged my diff, tranny, and tcase oil. no filings or even so much as a shimmer of metal in the oil. all tolerances are withing spec as is pinion bearing preload. no slop in the u joints either.

    im not worried about the noise...


    many threads have been started on this and the best theory is harmonic oscillation prevalent with a gearbox that has no load on it and is freely spinning
     
  14. Oct 23, 2011 at 6:57 PM
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    Yoytoda

    Yoytoda The Little Truck That Could

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    the noise your speaking of is due to what i believe is play in the side gears. theres afew threads on this as well. with lift the cv axles are at an angle which puts a side pressure on the axle. doesnt really hurt anything. the most it will hurt is the needle bearings and possibly the output shaft seal. both are easily replaced
     
  15. Oct 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM
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    jpmorrisvb

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    AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ... I just don't get it but am going to have to let it go ........
     
  16. Oct 23, 2011 at 8:33 PM
    #16
    Texoma

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    I heard of some guys flipping the drive shaft from front to back and the noise or vibe goes away. The shims probably help ya too. I don't have a single cab, but do they have a slip yoke on the shaft? If not, jsut try to think of how the lift has also increased the distance between the trans and the rear diff. You may need a custom drive shaft to totally eliminate any issues.
     
  17. Oct 24, 2011 at 4:34 AM
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    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    I have seen on other post the trick about flipping the drive shaft around but no one has actually done it, just heard about it.

    The reg cab has a slip yoke shaft so no prob with the fit. I may try that but i am still curious to see if the input and output drive lines are parallel. If not that could cause the harmonic issues at the rotational speeds that produce 55-65 mph. There has to be a reason.
     
  18. Oct 24, 2011 at 4:42 AM
    #18
    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    As for the dealership replacing the entire drive line on a 2011 Tacoma with 6000 miles with a garage lift installed beats the heck out of me too. I fully expected them to say remove the lift and if the problem doesn't go away then come back and we will take a look. But they jumped on this like it was a gift form heaven. They gave me a free loaner (RAV4) to drive for 3 weeks and treated me like, well, like i have never been treated at a dealership before. All i can conclude is that they get paid to do warranty work and all they need is an excuse. They never mentioned the lift kit but they did eyeball it when i was checking in.
     
  19. Oct 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM
    #19
    Yoytoda

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    i tried flipping it, no change. i just grease the slip yolk occasionally. 60k miles with the noise not getting louder or softer and no play anywhere, i still believe it is due to harmonic oscillation. It happens in alot of gear boxes when there is no load.

    When in your truck. go 65ish and let off the gas you will here that "dry bearing noise" touch the gas a little so there is no engine braking and the noise is a lot louder.

    nobody with a reg cab auto complains of the same noise
     
  20. Oct 24, 2011 at 12:33 PM
    #20
    geoandrew

    geoandrew [OP] Member

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    Yep, that's exactly what i do to get that grinding noise. However, with the 500 lb 4-wheeler mashing the springs down and reducing the angle, i am not able to get the noise anymore.
     
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