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subaru tweeters overpowering everything else. Could use some advice.

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by AbdullaJaafari, Aug 7, 2022.

  1. Aug 7, 2022 at 3:28 AM
    #1
    AbdullaJaafari

    AbdullaJaafari [OP] Dubai Taco

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    Hi gentlemen,

    Current setup:
    Headunit: Joying Android 10
    Tweeters: Subaru kicker tweeters
    Front doors: Kicker 43DSC6704
    Rear doors: Kicker 43DSC69304

    To be installed:
    Amp: Kicker 47KEY200.4 (To be wired according to Tpp4's No Nonsense harness guide)
    Sub: Kicker hideaway

    I'm currently preparing to do a noise insulation with sound deadening the doors, floor then sealing the speakers. I've already done the roof.
    The problem I'm facing is that no matter what I do, the tweeters are overpowering everything else. I understand they shame the same wiring with the front door speakers.

    I recently picked up a kicker key and planning to do the plug-n-play harness by tpp4. Should I be doing something different to get a better result with my audio setup?

    Sorry if my question is vague or if it's silly, but I'm not really experienced in setting up an audio system and I'm doing everything learning from the forums and youtube mostly.
     
  2. Aug 7, 2022 at 4:03 AM
    #2
    rnish

    rnish Well-Known Member

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    The Joying HU has an equalizer. Lower the high frequency(s). Start at 12khz and above. Lower each high frequency band 10%. Adjust to taste.
     
  3. Aug 7, 2022 at 5:56 AM
    #3
    ZMan2k2

    ZMan2k2 “Hold my beer and watch this!”

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    I have a simple solution, unplug the Subaru tweeters. Why? You have 6 tweeters up front right now!

    The 6x9s in the doors have a tweeter, “mid” (sort of, more another tweeter) and a woofer. Each side. Add to that the “tweeter upgrade”, and you have 2 tweeters, a high frequency midrange, and a woofer in each door. I’m not even counting the rear doors, I’m not sure if they’re faded forward or not, if not, add them to the tweeter count.

    You’ve at least doubled the tweeter count in the truck. Disconnect the Subaru tweeters, fade the rears forward some (personal preference), and try it again.
     
  4. Aug 7, 2022 at 6:03 AM
    #4
    MDFM31

    MDFM31 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an audio guy, but did a lot of sound deadening work in my truck to make it more comfortable. I put a layer of butyl on the door skins and a layer on the door frame, plus a maybe 8"x8" piece of closed cell foam behind the door speakers. This made an incredible difference in the perceived output of the door speakers. I would do all your sound deadening work before you start buying more gear. You may still wind up buying more gear, but you are also altering the environment, which may or may not jive with speakers you haven't bought yet.
     
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  5. Aug 7, 2022 at 7:15 AM
    #5
    soundman98

    soundman98 Well-Known Member

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    i'll be honest, i don't understand your fixation with 'only use 1 set of tweeters' all the time.

    if it's such a big deal to have 6 tweeters, why is it of no consequence to run 4-6 midranges? it seems your primary argument is that all the tweeters are 'doubling' the high frequency output, but with 4-6 midranges, they're also performing the same task. why not argue to strip midranges out of the truck as well?. if it's got anything to do with the inherent comb filtering/phasing of multiple output drviers, midranges are just as susceptible to it as high frequencies, though midrange frequencies are somewhat more tolerant of it. in a vehicle environment, there's actually more issues with reflections and cancelations than any other environment, and that's even if there were only 1 speaker!

    in any event, i'd argue that the dash tweeters offer a better sound stage location than the lower door speaker locations--if we're getting rid of tweeters, i'd suggest snipping out the door tweeters!




    OP, this is the big issue with mixing/matching models of speakers. every model is going to have slightly different output and tone characteristics from other models.

    to dampen just the tweeters, you'll need either a few resistors, or an L-pad for some infinite adjustment. this link covers either option.
    https://soundcertified.com/how-to-reduce-tweeter-volume/

    resistors or an appropriate L-pad is going to be the easiest/cheapest way to alter the tweeter output while using most of the factory wiring, though you will need to cut into the wiring to add the components. beyond that, it would involve installing an amp, and having a separate output just for the tweeters to adjust the input gain separately from the other speakers. in your case, it would require a 4 channel, and 2 channel amp, for 6 total channels of amplification.
     
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  6. Aug 7, 2022 at 7:29 AM
    #6
    Rock Lobster

    Rock Lobster Thread Derailer

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    Wait until you get the key installed.

    I have that setup now, minus the head unit. Install the key, set your HU equalizer to flat, pull the fuse to your sub, run the key's auto equalizer program using the included microphone.

    Then plug the sub back in, set your low end crossover and amp gains to balance the bass.

    That calibration alone will balance the high end, and holy cow, it sounds better than my previous systems that cost double than what I put into this one.

    If it still hits high, that's when you go into the head unit and start fine tuning with the preamp equalizer.
     
  7. Aug 7, 2022 at 7:30 AM
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    ZMan2k2

    ZMan2k2 “Hold my beer and watch this!”

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    Well stated. I’m not so much a “cut all high frequencies “ guy so much as a “one speaker per corner doing the job.” Like you said, mixing speakers randomly, rarely comes off sounding nice. How one achieves their desired sound is entirely up to them, but the OP asked for advice, so I supplied mine.

    Maybe my hate is because the Subaru tweeter “upgrade” has been so over-hyped here that it’s muddied the waters for some. I should probably stay away from threads regarding them from now on. :rofl:
     
  8. Aug 7, 2022 at 8:16 AM
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    soundman98

    soundman98 Well-Known Member

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    fair enough. didn't know if there was a more technical reasoning behind your logic that i wasn't seeing :)

    it's mostly compartmentalization on my part-- i've never liked kicker as a company, or infinity for that matter. way too harsh on their tweeters, even at the included -3db, they still remind me of the ravens screech in edgar allen poe's novel...

    i've also never really gotten into the kicker key stuff so much. still a ton of work, like any aftermarket amp, and to be stuck with only 50x4 rms, and not even CEA rated either!

    but gotta respect everyone's choices. not everyone wants/needs 100x4, and is willing to give up cargo space for better sound!
     
  9. Aug 7, 2022 at 9:27 AM
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    Rock Lobster

    Rock Lobster Thread Derailer

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    I gotta say you're right. It's a Miller Lite system and always will be, it'll never match the clarity of a JL or a B&O.

    For me, the kicker setup is a reasonable compromise considering the platform I'm installing into - a poorly insulated truck with a way too confined and overcrowded stage. I'm not looking to squeeze a theatre quality setup into a pickup truck, I just want something that's better balanced and has a little more clarity than stock.

    I wanted just enough insulation to knock out a little bit of road noise and give the speakers a decent back wall to push off of, hence doing the easy job of lining the doors. I'm too lazy to rip into the floor and headliner though. It's a truck. Some rattles, whistles and squeaks are part of the truck experience. :cookiemonster:

    So yeah, I'm happy with the key and mississippi-muddy underseat sub. It gets me 75% of the way to a decent system and that's good enough for me.

    Though to be fair, having a 10" woofer firing directly into your ass is a very unique experience I haven't had before. Find a song with a decent double-pedal drum solo (looking at you, Metallica One), and you have to turn it down to still be able to read the street signs.

     
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  10. Aug 7, 2022 at 12:02 PM
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    ZMan2k2

    ZMan2k2 “Hold my beer and watch this!”

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    Im speaking from experience when it comes to the Subaru “upgrade” tweeter. It’s known that they are the KS series tweeter. Well, I have the KS component 6x9 set, for around 3 years, before I really did my research and learning. Anyways, that tweeter needs to be attenuated in my system -6db! Nuts! Otherwise, it’s peel-your-face-off highs that are grating. So I have a healthy hate for them from experience. My Morel Temp Ultra 692s come tomorrow, I am so looking forward to it.

    That’s my hate for the Subaru tweeter.
     
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  11. Aug 7, 2022 at 12:15 PM
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    AbdullaJaafari

    AbdullaJaafari [OP] Dubai Taco

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    You guys are legends. Super helpful advices and I will get to those asap.

    I guess the overhype and pinning "Basic audio upgrade" threads are to blame as they always come up as the to-go-to basic upgrades.

    Ryan you got it 100% spot on. It's a rattly pick up truck and I just wanted a simple basic upgrade over the base audio system. I went through a huge pain to get the roof done but my next focus would be the doors.

    So I should be looking into dropping -6db from the tweeters and I should be good to go? Now, I just need to figure out how to do that.
     
  12. Aug 7, 2022 at 12:34 PM
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    Rock Lobster

    Rock Lobster Thread Derailer

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    I did mine electronically. As I said, the calibration sequence when I installed the Key knocked out most of it. It was fun to watch - the amp beeps at you which was the instruction to get out of the car, then it takes five minutes to give each channel a "hearing test." From the outside the truck sounded like it was trying to call an alien. :alien:

    After that I finished the install and it sounded much better, but still just a hair too loud on the treble. That famous kicker shrill. The Toyota head unit has a very basic equalizer compared to most aftermarkets (if you can even call it that) but I lowered the high frequency one or two notches and it was dialed in perfectly to my taste.

    Easy peasy, and no having to install inline filters. If I want to squeeze better performance than what I can get out of the electronic tuning I'll sell the whole set and buy proper components.:cookiemonster:
     
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  13. Aug 7, 2022 at 6:48 PM
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    soundman98

    soundman98 Well-Known Member

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    yea, if you're installing the amp later, i wouldn't bother with additional components right now-- the key eq adjustment should take care of a large part of it. i would only start worrying about adding components after adding the amp and making every electronic adjustment i could to compensate first.


    the biggest advantage to the subaru tweeters are that they're plug-n-play. everyone loves new stuff that can be installed in 15 minutes with their wife's pink 50-piece tool bag. that's how they keep coming up as a recomendation for anyone interested in changing the audio system.

    as far as install time, for me doing the work, i plan roughly half the day to do it-- day-off-work, with beers, tends to be slower. for a shop, likely 1-2 hours start to finish. for someone less familiar with crimps and/or soldering, it could be as much as a full day project. so it's not as easy as the tweeters were originally.
     
  14. Aug 7, 2022 at 6:53 PM
    #14
    soundman98

    soundman98 Well-Known Member

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    for a number of years, my cousin ran a small 25w amp and 2 aura pro bass shakers in his berretta z24, 1 each at the bottom of the front seatbacks. he specifically didn't want a sub. said it worked really well, never really heard of anyone else really playing with the technique though. it's on my 'if i ever get infinite lottery winnings and endless spare time' wishlist to try...

    another guy i went to tech school with, with almost no mechanical ability ended up with a olds aurora, he dropped 2-15" subs into the under-seat tray under the rear seats, no box, called it his rumble seat. said they did really well there...
     
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  15. Aug 7, 2022 at 7:09 PM
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    Rock Lobster

    Rock Lobster Thread Derailer

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    It's definitely not acoustically ideal, but it does make me laugh. I'm not sure if there ever will be a way to defeat physics with a 2 inch enclosure and have it properly produce a clear, low frequency tone.

    That said, the rumble seat is uniquely amusing. You do feel it more than you hear it. I've read on some sound forums that people have added seat shakers on the passenger seats so they could get in on the fun.
     
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  16. Aug 10, 2022 at 4:25 AM
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    dolbytone

    dolbytone Well-Known Member

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    Shakers are distracting IMO. If you want a good demo, hit up a 4DX auditorium. There are two shakers in each seat, lower back and under the cushion. If you are near a Regal with a RPX auditorium, we installed Buttkickers in the newer generations of those. The management should know if they have them. I know there is one in Asheville NC, and I service one in Charlotte NC. All of the other ones I service have immersive audio instead of Buttkickers.

    Regarding the Key, from what I can gather having never heard one, its strength is their house curve, but is otherwise unremarkable. I’d be interested in seeing the measured response from one that’s been calibrated if anyone that has one is bored.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022

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