Suspension Upgrades - No lift wanted

Dakar's give an average of 2.5" of lift over stock so to you that could be between 3-4" of height over where it sits currently.

OME Nitrochargers generally are the better 'performer' in offroading when it comes to g-outs and such; Bilstein 5100's are held to the same regard for the most part in terms of quality when compared to OME Nitrochargers.

You keep going back to these 2 lift kits so it's best to just read up on the two and pick your poison; you'll be happy with either choice.

Keep in mind though, you're looking at lifting your truck the more you look at either kit mentioned.

 

So, here’s my truck after having 4600s installed on all four corners and a pair of General Springs standard/OEM (not heavy duty) rear leaf springs installed just last week. It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the rear leaf springs raised the back end just enough to have a little bit of a rake. Ride quality was noticeably improved.

I also included a picture of what the new rear leaf springs look like. Although they don’t have much positive arch, they lifted the back end noticeably.

Very pleased with the results. I’m hoping that the backend doesn’t start sagging prematurely though.

 

You tell a guy this, 3 or 4 times (and he says he wants no lift) but refuses to listen.

Maybe your picture will reinforce what I've been telling him.

 

Well, my 2c . . .

These stock type rear leaves are junk. My truck only had 56K miles on it when I got it yet I damn near piled it up the very first time I drove it. Was pulling up to the stop sign on our dirt road, not at all fast, hit some washboards and the ass end of my truck was trying to pass me. Of course, applying the brakes at that moment would have been a BAD idea, so I had to regain control first, then brake. I got stopped with the nose of my truck sitting right on the edge of the highway.

I said . . . well, that's gonna get fixed!

2 or 3 leaves with a thick upside down overload is just a BAD design period, especially on a truck this light. The Deavers have just night and day fixed this issue. The rear end actually has "a suspension" now. Could not be happier.

Up front, there are better options than the Boss COs but I was on a budget. I had the reported issue where Toytec shipped the wrong 600lb coils but refused to pay return shipping because they invoiced me for the 600lb coils. I won't rehash that but the 550s I ORDERED would have been a better riding choice on mine. Front is still a tad stiff but also is still quite a bit better than the factory COs. And, I ended up 1.5" lift out back so I set the fronts at +1". Yes, I could have removed a spring in back to get less lift in back but I was SO happy with the travel and just actually having a suspension back there that I left well enough alone.

I also took most of the lean problem out with front CO adjustment. I have one set about 1/2" taller than the other.

And, as I reported, the Deavers handle 700-800lbs fine which I have only exceeded like twice since I put them on so I never got around to putting on my Firestone bags for overload conditions. I haul 300-500lbs a LOT though.

 

Some of you might like to try chilling out a bit.
I wouldn't call wanting other points of view and more detailed answers as refusing to listen, especially since you didn't give me complete answers to my questions and concerns in the first place and it's not consistent to what I've read from others who have posted over the years.
And what is wrong with trying to explore what I can and can not get away with. Yes I said I want something close to a stock height. If you read my post I also said I'm open to whatever would be the best setup.
What is wrong with trying to explore further options that may be out there then what you said?
I thought I was asking some very good questions which I still didn't get answers to. Like 880 spring vs 881 vs???
You didn't give me any further thought on that as possible solutions.
Don't get me wrong I'm very grateful for the information.
I thought this was a forum to ask questions and explore options.
Sorry I wasn't prepared to be attacked for asking for further thoughts about quality parts etc.
How was I suppose to know yours should be the final answer. Especially since I read from other's posts different messages about this subject.

Canonmutant
Thank you for your post. Yes, I've read all your posts and story and I agree with your assessment of things.
That is one of the reason I was trying to explore and understand this subject completely.
Part of the reason to explore possible further solutions was because you Didn't replace your front springs with something else.

What the picture reinforces to me is that the rear sits lower then the front. Ok, thanks. Yet doesn't mention anything about replacing front springs, (which is what I'm looking to do) just adding shocks. I see you have the stock rear springs which is fine.
Yet, I was trying to ask about the other options Daker vs Deaver vs Alcan...

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for the valuable information and insights that is on this forum. It's your attitude that comes with your answers when someone is just trying to explore if there are any further possibilities to consider that sucks.

 

Answered above in bold/red.

My answers are really just opinions, but they're often repeated in many suspension threads relating to 1st Gen Tacoma's.

 

Thanks,

Yes, your right it is subjective especially with everyone's different factors. I read them all.

I'm not trying for less quality I'm looking for the best quality for a fair price.

You said: You keep going back to these 2 lift kits...
But, is it a lift kit if the kit is offering the 880 (stock) in the kit?
And if the 880 is then NOT a lift, BUT the Daker IS a lift then I would have an issues is what I was trying to get at.
Yes, I'll call and clarify it with them. Just thought I would get a better understanding on it all here first in case I get someone who isn't knowledgeable and doesn't know he isn't knowledgeable and I get the wrong advice. I've heard that happen a few times on this forum.

Frizzman you said: However many have used the 881s with PreRunners and like them. Maybe I'm getting old but I prefer a little softer ride for my DD but these lifts are more designed for actually going off road (of which I'm lucky to do 10% of the time anymore) so being a pavement only may not justify going with a lift versus keeping stock type components.

So to educate myself, I asked you if the 880 and 881 are the same spring rate how is it you would have a softer ride?
What determines the softer ride aside from heavier vehicle?
Spring height? Shock?

If the 880 are stock height and the Nitrochargers do fit and work together like wheelers website say's, would you go with the nitrochargers over the 4600?

Another stupid question that I keep asking. In the front, is it the springs or the shocks or both that give the truck it's height?

That's the information I wanted to know about for the rear leafs. Thanks

I do want to go with either Deaver, Dakar or Alcan.
Would any of those choices leave me with having to have it custom tailored if I go with the 880 stock height?

Thanks for the help

 

Or just go 40's n tons

 

if you are not getting Moog or OEM coils everything else is a lift

the 880s are 1.75" LIFT over stock height, they are not stock height, maybe that's where your confusion comes in?

880 and 881 are the same spring rate, but they are also a little stiffer than stock (stock is 475 lb if I remember correctly). Also the TRD coils are "progressive rate" not liner so they feel a little softer due to the different zones (albeit small) of compression.

most normal front coilovers that just bolt in are linear compression (the Moog stock replacement coils are linear). if you move up to higher end systems you can get into all kinds of different setups but your wallet also opens wide

I think I got those right but if I didn't hopefully someone will correct me

 

I read through this entire thread this morning. Thanks for a wealth of info.

Coming off the beach the other day I noticed what I think is a spun wheel bearing (whirring, modulating with speed, and creaky on turns). Has me thinking now is the time to address the suspension since without a load I’m bouncing all over in the rear end. I really don’t want a lift kit, just an OEM+ setup that will last me until the frame rots out.

@canonmutant : you mentioned the 550 vs 600 up front repeatedly. Is there another manufacturer you would have considered? How is your current setup with towing? I regularly haul firewood and materials for the yard in an ancient M416 trailer. Thanks!

 

Thanks Frizzman,

That was the confusion. Now it makes sense.

I read a post that said the stock rate is 375.
So I knew the front would be stiffer then stock using the 880. Which might be good from what other people posting said.

No, I didn't know about progressive rate vs liner like the 880s would be.
Would the 880 make worse that hard bang that you feel when you go over a bump in the pavement with both tires?
Or is that because of my shock being worn out.

So with the 880 and a 1.75" lift, I could install the Deaver in the back which is a 1.5" for almost level.
Or Daker which gives me a 2.5" lift and I think one of the posters said it settled .5" over some time.

Will the shocks affect the lift? If yes, then by how much?

I know Canonmutant has the Deavers and can carry up to about 800lbs. I can't remember if he got it with the extra spring for that weight, I suspect yes.

Does anyone know what gross weight capacity the Dakers can carry?

Does anyone know what gross weight capacity the stock springs carry with the overload spring that it has?

Thanks

 

This goes back to what's been mentioned before.

Bilstein 5100's or OME Nitrochargers will not be effected by your lift; they've been used together for many years. This combination is nothing new and in fact, Nitrochargers are made to work with the Dakar's.

OME Dakar's don't handle any more weight than stock; they just happen to lift your vehicle. I will say though, if you need more payload, just opt for the add a leaf option offered by many vendors.

It lifts your truck a bit higher than the Deaver's, but a bit of rake is desired for when you do need to haul stuff.

 

They could be 375, I'm honestly not sure but I thought they were slightly more

the linear coils are constant so for me they feel stiffer than the TRD stock coils

as for the 880s and Deaver that would be good for "level" (again normal weight rating on the Deavers)

the shocks will not affect lift unless you get the 5100 and use a setting above "0" (which is not recommended, let the coils be the lifting mechanism and not the shocks)

The Dakars are rated for "stock" weight, you would have to get the AAL for them to be rated to carry more. They are just stacked with 8 leafs which is how it gets the 2.5" lift (yes they will settle a little)

 

So then the Dakars with an AAL might be the way to go, but wondering here (after spending hours reading this and other forums) how it'll ride. I have a fiberglass top mounted and usually my track wheels/tires are in there. Figure the top is about 150lbs or so. I'd like to increase capacity since I'm regularly hauling crap, and the only wheeling it ever gets is on the beach at Assateague Island a couple times per year, and the occasional fire road run.

Front end I have an ARB bumper but no winch. If I understand correctly, I shouldn't necessarily need to go heavier than a 5100 or 880, since I have zero intention of buying a winch.

Is there a preferred supplier ya'll order from nowadays? I swear, I've been out of the scene for so long I don't even know where to start.

 

Only 150lbs?

I wouldn't even bother with an AAL.

I carried 50lbs (bed rack), RTT (90lb), Wilco Tiregate (30lb?) with 10 ply 32" spare hanging from it, custom sliders (80lbs), Trail Gear rear bumper (50lbs?), and 5lb CO2 bottle regularly with Dakar's without the add a leaf, and kept my lift.

 

Thanks, appreciate the point about not doing an AAL. I found it hard to sift through all the data out there but that definitely makes my decision easier.

Far as weight: Might be more like 200 or so but its an older Jason cap and its been a while since I took it off. With the fishing kayak and full camping shower up there I'm close to another 150lbs on top before we get into any payload.

I'm not necessarily concerned with a lift, much like the OP I want to replace with OEM+. If I wind up with a slight lift I'm not losing sleep but I'm also not running to the parts counter to get direct OEM replacements for the 17 year old factory TRD kit. I don't wheel it hard and like I said, mostly sees sand and occasional fire road duty. Its a weekend warrior truck and gets Home Depot and dump runs regularly though. I need it to not be jumping all over the damned road with no weight in the bed.

Since we're running more or less the same ext cab setup, what are you running up front?

I'm going to be replacing both front wheel bearings since the left is due and the right might as well be done at the same time. I have to get it in the air to determine if my lower control's are still decent. If not, I'll swap out to Toyota OEMs at the same time.

Some newb questions if you don't mind:

If I switch to the Dakars, will I need to extend brake lines?

Since I'll have the whole front end more or less off, is it really necessary to do upper control arms?

 

If expecting any real flex, just cough up the $40 on an extended rear brake line. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I'll just tell you I ran 600lb springs up front; telling you I ran Fox 2.5's up front might just confuse you a bit more in your selection of front shocks/springs.

As for lower control arms, unless they're bent/damaged, just replace the bushings with either a Sonoran Steel set of Whitelines.

I had stock upper control arms on the Tacoma and still run stock upper control arms on the 4Runner.

If you've got the front setup off, just redo the ball joints and bushings. May as well do the tie rods/ends while you're at it.

 

Makes total sense. Not wheeling it but having the extra is a cheap fix to prevent a potentially catastrophic scenario.

I know Fox is top of the line but given the cost and that the truck gets *maybe* 3-4K miles a year, I'm going to look elsewhere for a front setup, but thanks. I'm a bit leery of OME, a friend has the identical truck with them and its... jumpy.

Best I can tell they're not damaged. 17 years/150K miles has put wear on the whole thing so I'm at a point where I need to address suspension parts accordingly. For once I'm not doing the work since there's a fair amount of corrosion underneath, and the wheel bearings require pressing in and out unlike my old 1st Gen 4R's. I just figure that since the hubs will get pulled it just makes sense to do it all at once.

Didn't see the bushings on Sonoran's page (glad to see they're still around) but did see these. This what you referred to above? https://whitelineperformance.com/products/w53377a-bushing-kit

My 1990 4Runner never had suspension work in 187K of ownership and aside from the typical rear end sag it never had issues. Rode well and didn't get bouncy or for that matter have excessive body roll either. Had the motor not blown out the freeze plugs I'd likely still have it.

Makes sense. Do you have a suggestion on replacement parts and where to find them? Or a link to an FAQ/thread that I can read through?

 

They're found here - Strongflex Front Lower A-Arm Bushings 96-02 4Runner + USPS Flat - $138.93 : Sonoran Steel Fabrication LLC, Toyota Truck Parts

But yes, you can use Whitelines as well.

Different style of bushing though; the Sonoran Steel is a huge improvement over Whitelines but with as little as you drive, it's a moot point.

The Forum's 1st Gen Section FAQ has a ton of info.

But in short, just stick to OEM.

A few items can be substituted with no ill effects such as tie rod ends, sway bar end links, and more.

If you do your lower ball joints, I highly recommend OEM but plenty have used 555 with great results.

Lower ball joints are a weak link in 1st Gen Tacoma's. However, most failures occur because they were long overdo and the originals finally gave in.

 

Thanks @Kwikvette appreciate the info.

I guess I’m asking if there is a forum favorite vendor(s). German car forums love FCP Euro, hate ECS. Know what I mean?