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Synthetic vs Reg Oil in a low milage Tacoma

Discussion in 'X-Runners' started by Patch, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. May 6, 2014 at 5:43 PM
    #21
    dmharvey79

    dmharvey79 Well-Known Member

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    I've always ran whatever the manufacturer recommends, two exceptions being my E36 M3 (7500rpm redline) and my SHO (twin turbo)...because I drove the hell out of both of those cars on a daily basis.

    For most NA engines, like those in the Tacoma, I personally see no reason to go with synthetic oil since they're pretty basic engines. My wife's Corolla has 180k on the clock and it runs like new with nothing but cheap bulk oil swapped out every 3-4k miles.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  2. May 6, 2014 at 7:57 PM
    #22
    voz

    voz Nothing Witty To Say

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    I have been running walmart brand full synthetic in all my cars since 2002. No issues whatsoever.
     
  3. May 8, 2014 at 2:33 PM
    #23
    Kevinztaco

    Kevinztaco Well-Known Member

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    Mobi 1 full synthetic for my taco. It just gives me a sense of security. I don't know why and I also use it in my 2-wheel cruiser.
     
  4. May 8, 2014 at 6:57 PM
    #24
    AWorthyOpponent

    AWorthyOpponent Member Caught Off Road

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    I like Mobil1 full synthetic. Cost isn't that much more, and just about every high mileage thread I see has that oil used...
     
  5. May 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM
    #25
    mycroft

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  6. May 10, 2014 at 9:50 AM
    #26
    DonziGT230

    DonziGT230 Gearhead

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    I have no doubt Amsoil is superior. Whether or not it's superior properties will benefit enough to be worth the price depends on usage. I know only two people who used Amsoil religiously and one suffered engine damage. I didn't get to do the tear down because I wasn't available, the mechanic who fixed it cited lack of service as the cause and found lots of gunk/sludge in the engine. He was using the 25k mile extended drain stuff and their best filter, I have no idea if he was keeping to it or letting it go over. The only safe way I see to benefit from an extended drain oil is to spend more money and do analysis. My brother was doing analysis on his truck and found that even with the dino oil Walmart was using he was able to go well past the suggested drain intervals. Any modern oil will keep your engine alive a very long time if you change it when it's time. 3 out of 5 of my most often used vehicles get synthetic, the less used get dino, my 2 stroke boat gets blend, and the other boat used to get dino and now gets syn. The parked vehicles are all on dino as are my other engines (generators, lawn tools, etc.) Never had a lubrication issue with anything except an old lawnmower that was on dino and my nephew ran it out of oil.
     
  7. May 11, 2014 at 5:20 PM
    #27
    mycroft

    mycroft Member

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    I have used Amsoil in numerous applications since 1981. When used as instructed Amsoil has shown that it performs as Amsoil says it will. Amsoil is known as the world leader in synthetics and invented the first api/sae approved synthetic in 1972 and it was Mobil who ripped off Amsoil, not the other way around. I would challenge anyone to conduct their own test against any lubricant made by anyone at any price. Amsoil warrants their oil and you can see that warranty at Amsoil.com. No other manufacturer has anything similar. Use what you want but Amsoil has always been the best.
     
  8. May 12, 2014 at 8:43 AM
    #28
    DonziGT230

    DonziGT230 Gearhead

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    Sounds like an Amsoil salesman. The analytical data Amsoil uses to show their superiority is a good indicator of their product's attributes, but it doesn't prove how well the oil will perform in an engine. Their cost per year stats use MSRP prices of oils, theirs is the only one not available at half MSRP. They show Mobil1 at over $9/qt and we know Walmart sells it for under $5. Their tests did reveal something interesting, Penzoil ultra which I've started using instead of Mobil1 has very good attributes for a $5 oil.

    Mobil 1 did come after Amsoil, but there was no "ripping off" as they use different methods and base stocks. It's like saying that the first maker of smokeless gun powder "ripped off" the Chinese who invented black powder in the 9th century. Amsoil publicly welcomed Mobil1 stating that they believed it would increase their sales. They both have similar product defect warrantee coverage. Amsoil requires the vehicle owner to obtain and send in an oil sample, Mobil only requires that the owner allow Mobil to obtain a sample from the engine if they choose to. Amsoil has a much longer list of exclusions to warrantee coverage. Sounds to me like Mobil has a better warrantee. Mobil 1 is factory fill on many high end cars; Amsoil? Cost and availability make Mobil and all the other synthetics very attractive. Does Amsoil's -50 degree pour point benefit me in So. Cal.? Does it's higher flash point really benefit my Taco who's oil will never get hot enough to damage even the cheapest oil? Does a high mileage interval benefit me when my truck will do 3k miles/year and have to be changed anyway? None of my engines have 4 balls rotating under pressure at room temperature. Any oil will protect a long time. I bought a Nissan truck that had gone 4 years and 42K miles on factory dino oil and was still running fine even tho it was down to under 2 qts. I sold it a few years later still running fine and I used only the cheapest oils and filters. Mobil is easier to get, cheaper, and is easier to obtain warrantee from. Using Amsoil's best stuff it'd cost me $75 to do an oil change on my Taco. Using the 'Amsoil's best' thought I should also do the trans, diff, air filter... If i did all my vehicles I'd have to mortgage the house.
    Oil battles will continue forever. I'm in no way saying that Amsoil isn't great, but it's cost ins't justifiable to me or many other people.
     
  9. Dec 12, 2014 at 8:37 AM
    #29
    EdFlecko

    EdFlecko Well-Known Member

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    This is a simple choice - if you want your motor to last as long as it can, then use synthetic oil. Game, set, match.

    Here's a good, basic video on synthetic oil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZivhWIM0Q8s and be SURE to watch the cold weather "pour test" at apprimately :48 seconds into the clip.

    Everyone would agree that the most damage to any motor occurs on startup, and synthetic oils will ALWAYS flow better to the moving parts on startup than ANY conventional oil, all things being equal (i.e., they're both the same grade - a.k.a. "weight"). When deciding on the oil you'd like to use, keep that thought in mind - how quickly will the oil get to the moving parts when the motor fires?

    "More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup." - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

    "We left off discussing that a 0W-30 grade oil is not thinner than a 10W-30 oil. They both have the same thickness at operating temperature. The 0W-30 simply does not get as thick on cooling as the 10W-30. Both are still way to thick to lubricate an engine at startup."

    "Now you can see that the difference between the desired thickness your engine requires ( = 10 ) is closest to the 0W-30 oil at startup. It is still too thick for normal operation. But it does not have far to go before it warms up and thins to the correct viscosity. Remember that most engine wear occurs at startup when the oil is too thick to lubricate properly. It cannot flow and therefore cannot lubricate. Most of the thick oil at startup actually goes through the bypass valve back to the engine oil sump and not into your engine oil ways. This is especially true when you really step on that gas pedal. You really need more lubrication and you actually get less." - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-102/

    Although much of this video refernces the cold environment of Canada, the concept is the same in warmer climates. Take a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OWiQyR7PWII and in particular, watch the demo at approimately 2:08 into the clip. I think it's an excellent demonstration of how a 0W-30 flows much better than a 5W-30, which flows much better than a 10W-30, etc., etc. At approximately 4:58 into the clip, you'll get an idea of how the grade of oil can impact the protection of your engine. I don't remember if they're referring to conventional oil or synthetic, but I'm guessing it's conventional. Keep in mind that synthetics flow better than conventional when they're cold, both when the ambient temperature is cold and the motor is cold.

    Some people who watch the video might say, "Yeah but this doesn't apply to me because I live in a warm location...". I would argue where you live is irrelevant - your motor and the motor oil still cool off when the motor stops. The goal when the motor starts is the same - how quickly will the oil circulate to the moving parts to protect the motor?

    If you want to learn more about oil and discuss them ad nauseam, join the forum at: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

    I'm not suggesting you use Mobil 1, but here's an interesting video of them pimping their oil: Mobil Million Mile BMW 325i - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHmMlU8Q-V8

    Ed
     
  10. Dec 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM
    #30
    2004TacomaSR5

    2004TacomaSR5 Well-Known Member

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    Synthetic is just the best all around, spend the extra money on it and use it, your engine will thank you for it later. I got my 04 a month ago and just changed out the oil to 5w30 Mobil 1 synthetic today, will stay that way for as long as I own it.
     
  11. Dec 12, 2014 at 1:48 PM
    #31
    kenjw

    kenjw Well-Known Member

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    It's so funny to see this. I have been on various automotive forums for decades and the Amsoil brigade will always seize any opportunity to turn a question like this into an ad. Back in the 1980s I watched a buddy ruin the engine in a perfectly good Honda Accord by following their (at that time) "never change oil" mantra. Now it's apparently 25k, which isn't as bad as "never" but still too long.

    The thing is, I am sure Amsoil is an okay product, but any oil that goes into an internal combustion engine has to be changed because it picks up stuff that contaminates it and ultimately turns it to sludge. There's no chemical you can put into an oil that will change that.

    I use Mobil 1 and change it according to the manufacturer recommendation.
     
  12. Dec 12, 2014 at 4:14 PM
    #32
    2004TacomaSR5

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    I agree, Amsoil hasn't won me over yet. Will take a lot to steal my loyalty away from Mobil 1.
     
  13. Dec 12, 2014 at 4:20 PM
    #33
    2004TacomaSR5

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    People seriously go 25k on an oil change? That's just asinine. The max I go on my synthetic change is 5k and would never push it further than 7k without changing it. Oil's cheap, engines aren't is the way I see it.
     
  14. Dec 13, 2014 at 7:57 AM
    #34
    DonziGT230

    DonziGT230 Gearhead

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    5k is excessive even on dino oil. 7k is still more than needed in most cases, but at least less wasteful. Not trying to convince you to do it, just noting what I've seen from analysis on many vehicles. The 25k intervals from amsoil may work for some, but it's more than I'd do without analysis.
     
  15. Dec 14, 2014 at 3:42 PM
    #35
    14TACO4X4

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  16. Dec 14, 2014 at 3:44 PM
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    14TACO4X4

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    http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
     
  17. Dec 14, 2014 at 7:57 PM
    #37
    kenjw

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    I think in a lot of cases 5k is a little conservative but that's what Toyota recommends for the 2.7 so that's what I will be doing, and I will use Mobil 1 once I am done with the complimentary changes courtesy of the Toyota free for 25k maintenance. The oil life monitor systems such as the GM Oil Life System are ideal in my view but since Toyota is still going by mileage alone you're going to get a more conservative change interval. Also a lot of the manufacturers, Toyota included, got bit in the butt a few years ago when their extended drain intervals started sludging up their engines and causing warranty claims.

    I get the whole extended drain thing. They figure the vehicle is only going to last so long because the body and frame will rot, everything else will wear out, etc., so why change oil at 5k and one day wind up with a rustbucket that's shot in every way except for a perfect engine. So change it at 25k and by the time everything else is trashed the engine will be puffing clouds of blue smoke too, so you won't feel so bad about junking it. Then again, nah, I will just change the oil and hope the rest of the truck lasts too.
     
  18. Dec 14, 2014 at 8:06 PM
    #38
    kenjw

    kenjw Well-Known Member

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    This is a good point. My 2.7 Tacoma calls for 0W-20 though so it's pretty much synthetic or tap water - not sure if there's much difference between the two.

    Seriously though, if I had to bet on which engine would last longer between one that got 4k changes with mineral-based oil and another that got 8k with synthetic I would put my money on the 4k with dino.
     
  19. Dec 15, 2014 at 8:52 AM
    #39
    DonziGT230

    DonziGT230 Gearhead

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    That might be looked at as well as: lower maintenance cost, EPA, actually not needing more service. Lowered maintenance costs can be BS to try to sell vehicles based on the claim that it costs less to own than something else. EPA wants less waste oil being dumped. In many cases it's found that cars are having the oil changed more often than needed. Decent synthetic at 5K miles should still be in great shape, dino should still be good too. I've seen numerous times where a vehicle is specd for one oil weight and interval in the US and something different elsewhere. The engines are the same, the laws are different as well as people's view of a vehicle. I remember looking up a Mercedes a few years ago that was specd for 10-30 here and 20-50 in Germany for the same conditions. The US manual did show 20-50 as an accepted oil, but 10-30 preferred. Their manual showed 10-40 accepted if driving mellow and in cool weather, 20-50 preferred. It would be interesting to see if Toyota recommends something different in other countries where the focus may be on what's actually best for the engine rather than economy or laws.

    I understand the idea that oil changes are cheap insurance to a long lasting engine but if you spend an extra $2-3k in oil to add maybe 100K miles to the end an old vehicle's engine life, did you really accomplish anything positive?

    Have people worn out 2.7s to have an idea of the mileage expectancy with different service intervals?
     
  20. Dec 16, 2014 at 7:12 AM
    #40
    kenjw

    kenjw Well-Known Member

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    Many good points here. I know thin oils are all the rage in the United States but this is not true everywhere, as you say. I guess not all of the German engineers agree with the various websites that proclaim the benefits of thin oil. I have seen exactly the recommendations you cite where other manufacturers are still calling for a complete range of oil in different conditions, rather than just a blanket "one thin oil fits all" recommendation we get here despite the fact that people operate these engines anywhere from -40 in Alaska to 115 in Arizona.

    After my 2.7 is out of powertrain warranty I will try a change with 5W-30. Toyota says this is permissible anyway for one oil change.
     
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