Synthetic vs Reg Oil in a low milage Tacoma

Make it east on yourself. Amsoil. Regardless of weight. Stay with the manufacturer spec.

 

I will use Mobil 1 regardless of what weight I use. As far as the Toyota recommendation, would I stick with the U.S. recommendation or one of the completely different ones given to owners in other countries?

 

problem with that is temperature changes the spec.. at least until the engine is fully warmed up

i use mobile 1 syn as well, here in cali 0w-40 works nicely

 

I would think 0W-40 would be better in high temperatures than 0W-20 for sure. In England where it generally never gets hot they are calling for 0W-30 in the 2.7. Yet the US has a blanket recommendation for 0W-20 despite it being hot many places.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyfRGljTRI

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/nothing_outperforms_mobil1.htm

Don't believe this then do your own test Take any engine and put a temp gauge on the oil. Run it hot with whatever you think is a great oil, drain it, and do the same with Amsoil. Whichever has the lowest operating temperature wins.

Mobil has a huge marketing budget. You are buying into marketing hype.

 

So people should ignore the Mobil advertising hype and believe the Amsoil hype, then?

First of all the test you propose is impractical for an average person to do because you can't control for all the variables. Second, why does a lower temperature "win"? I assume this is supposed to mean that it's lubricating better and therefore letting the engine run cooler. But I don't know that and there could be some other reason.

Finally I don't have any problem with Amsoil as a product but as I said earlier in this thread, nearly 30 years ago I watched a buddy ruin an engine in a Honda Accord by following Amsoil's advice at that time to never change the oil and use some ridiculous filter contraption filled with cotton. Now they've apparently wised up and stopped advising that nonsense but are still apparently advocating an excessively long 25k drain interval with at least some of their products, probably in an attempt to justify a high price.

 

But I do have to hand it to their marketing department. On no automotive discussion board I have ever visited have Amsoil people failed to populate these conversations, and there are literally hundreds of websites that purport to be unbiased sources of information that are actually nothing but Amsoil promotion sites. To me that's dishonest and causes me to be suspicious of their products.

 

Engine temperature gauge or oil temperature? I'll fast forward...engine operating temp as viewed on the gauge won't change, if there's so much friction from the lubricated parts that the cooling system can't handle it the engine would seize long before the gauge moved. I've monitored oil temps with many oils and also haven't seen a difference. I have no doubt Amsoil has oils that are superior to Mobil1 and other on the shelf oils, but they cost a crapload and have to be ordered through a distributor rather than pop into Walmart an have oil & filter in hand for $30. I've switched from Mobile1 to Pennzoil Platinum after reading a test that I think was conducted by Amsoil, the Pennz beat their oil on a few tests and it's under $5/qt. in the jug at Walmart. Mobil1 extended service warrantee is better than Amsoil's; they both say 25k, but Mobil doesn't require you to use a $20 filter nor to they require you to submit an oil sample before authorizing repairs. Mobile reserves the right to conduct an oil analysis at their cost and discretion before paying out. I also find it fishy that Amsoil and Amway have a little too much in common. Amsoil lovers please continue to use their product, it keeps the 'normal' oils competing and affordable. I've used Amsoil a few times that I got a smokin deal on it and felt nothing different from it other than the satisfaction of using $12/qt oil at Walmart price.

 

BTW, that cold pour test is pretty useless.

 

Pennzoil has really upped there game as of late with there synthetics. I'm a recent convert. They are the only company to guarantee right on the bottle that all of there base starts off as natural gas, which is what some have called a modern true synthetic. Everyone else, including Mobil, has been finding ways to reformulate there oil within the accepted definition of synthetic oil with less refined base oils that may degrade long life and cold start performance.

If you live in Canada and cold start your truck, you should always use synthetics. They all stay fairly fluid at sub zero temps and provide better lubrication at startup than conventional oils. Think about waking up to coffee and eggs versus bad water and moldy toast. I know the OP isn't from up North but the cold start thing is really the biggest advantage to synthetics for me.

I think Amisol is mostly hype. I'm sure it's a good product, but there's so much structure within structure in there sales model it reminds me of the guy walking around the old west selling snake oil. There's also multiple threads on here and elsewhere that detail cases where Amisol basically walked away the moment a fairly new engine blew up because of there "extend oil life" plans. To me, it's all hype and no backing. So no thanks Amisol.

Bottom line, use whatever oil you want but keep the intervals fairly regular during the warranty period. After warranty IMHO oil testing is the only way to tell how long you should run your oil, and I'd never trust a filter for any more than 5K for the small cost it takes to replace it regularly.

Lastly, I'd never switch an old motor over from dino to synthetic unless I knew it was a clean engine. Synthetics have a nasty habit of breaking up old sludge deposits which can wreak havoc on the oil pump, oil passages, and anything the moves in the engine potentially causing a premature engine failure. Starting you engine on a synthetic oil and sticking to it seems to be the best way to go to keep an engine running like new IF you want to go the synthetic route.

 

Your engine was spec'd for 5W-30 until 2011 or so. Around that time the EPA revised its fuel economy testing procedure to include more cold-temp startups, at which point Toyota started "mandating" 0W-20 for the 2.7 to eck out an extra 1 mpg.

 

My dealership put 0W-20 in my V6 Tacoma by mistake on my first "free" oil change. It ran like shit, and I'm pretty sure it through off the VVT for a little while. I've heard from some people with much better mechanical knowledge than I have that changing oil weights is not a good idea on VVT engines since they rely on the oil viscosity to adjust the valve timing. I don't know if that's true but maybe someone else here can confirm or deny that. Anyways now I change my own oil every time with the recommended weight.

 

Amsoil lovers love Amsoil because it is the best product on the market. Believe what you want.

Synthetic Motor Oil
Automakers cannot deny warranty claims solely on the
basis of using synthetic motor oil, and they cannot specify
a certain oil brand to be used in their vehicles. Instead, they
require the oil meets the appropriate API, ACEA or OEM
performance classification, or equivalent, and SAE viscosity
grade specified in the owner’s manual.
Many modern vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor
oils and the manufacturers encourage continued use of synthetic
motor oils in order to achieve maximum performance.
Many other automobile manufacturers neither recommend
nor discourage the use of synthetic motor oils, requiring only
that the oil meets a certain performance classification, or
equivalent, and viscosity grade.
Extended Drain Intervals
Automakers may not void warranties based solely on an
owner’s practice of extending oil drain intervals. Dealership
personnel and district managers may be unaware of the
serviceability of synthetic oils over an extended period, but
they may not summarily dismiss a warranty claim based on
the owner’s practice of changing oil at extended intervals.
To do so does not disprove a defect in manufacture or workmanship
as the immediate cause of failure. Vehicle owners
may appeal to a factory representative if the dealership
and district manager do not satisfactorily settle the warranty
claim. Factory representatives appreciate the value of used
oil analysis and do consider preventive maintenance oil
analysis reports in their evaluations of warranty claims, while
post-failure oil analysis is critically important to the disposition
of a warranty claim. Their findings pull more weight than
the opinions of dealerships or district managers.
If used engine oil is discarded without an independent
analysis, the dealership and vehicle manufacturer lose their
evidence to support a claim that the oil, and not a mechanical
problem, caused the failure. For example, sludge may
be formed through several avenues, not all related to the
oil’s performance. Antifreeze contamination or nitration due
to poor electronic sensor performance may cause sludge,
and both may be directly related to a defect in vehicle
manufacture or workmanship, but clearly neither may be
blamed on the oil.
Vehicle manufacturers base their owner’s manual maintenance
recommendations on their own research and to best
protect their equipment based upon lubricants of varying
quality, reliability and value in the marketplace. A move toward
extended drain intervals is in progress now. In many of
its vehicles, Ford extended its recommended drain interval
to 10,000 miles in normal service conditions, while GM has
been recommending increased intervals when indicated by
its oil monitoring system.
AMSOIL Warranty
AMSOIL offers superior synthetic motor oils fully capable of
providing extended drain service. AMSOIL is committed to
backing its products, as well as protecting the interests of its
customers. Therefore, AMSOIL INC. offers its customers a
limited warranty.
“AMSOIL INC. warrants that the use of its
lubricants will not cause mechanical damage
to any mechanically sound equipment
when AMSOIL INC. products are used
in full compliance with the company’s
recommendations and instructions.”
AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are formulated to surpass
engine test specifications, offering superior protection for
extended drain intervals. With its unparalleled oil and warranty
program, AMSOIL offers consumers unprecedented
protection and economics. See www.amsoil.com/warranty.
aspx to view the AMSOIL limited warranty for lubricant and
filtration products.
Warranties and AMSOIL
Automobile manufacturers generally warrant their vehicles to remain free of defect in manufacture
or workmanship for a certain mileage or time period. Whether an automaker will honor a warranty
claim depends on the vehicle owner providing proper maintenance for the vehicle. For this reason,
it is important for vehicle owners to maintain maintenance records. Proper maintenance includes
installing appropriate oil and filters.
Warranty Specifics
• Any lubricant meeting performance specifications, or equivalent, and viscosity may be used.
Vehicle manufacturers describe lubricants by their viscosity grade and service classification (API, ACEA or OEM).
API classifications are defined by the Tripartite Committee, composed of the American Petroleum Institute, the Society
of Automotive Engineers and the American Society for Testing and Materials. All AMSOIL synthetic motor oils state their
SAE viscosity grade and API performance classification on the product container, and all are recommended for the
highest performance classification for their application.
If personnel at a vehicle dealership claim that a vehicle warranty is void simply by using AMSOIL synthetic motor
oil, obtain this statement in writing and send a copy to AMSOIL Technical Services. AMSOIL will follow-up with the
dealership.
• The vehicle manufacturer may not specify by brand name the products you may use in your vehicle.
It is against Federal law for an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) to deny warranty
coverage based soley on the brand of lubricant used. The Warranty Secure symbol informs
consumers of this fact. Using AMSOIL synthetic lubricants in place of OEM-branded lubricants,
or practicing extended drain intervals when using AMSOIL lubricants, does not void
new vehicle or equipment manufacturer warranties.
According to the Federal Trade Commission:
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the
warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part.... The manufacturer or dealer must show that the
aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage. (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/
edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm)
AMSOIL stands behind its products and the people who use them. If the OEM claims use of AMSOIL products violates
the warranty, contact AMSOIL Technical Services (715-399-TECH). For complete information on AMSOIL warranties,
contact AMSOIL Technical Services or visit www.amsoil.com/warranty.
• Cause of failure is paramount to warranty claim payment.
Vehicle manufacturers warrant their products to be free of defect in manufacture or workmanship. All claims must be
covered unless a vehicle manufacturer proves a failure is lubricant-related. The manufacturer may not arbitrarily blame
a failure on the consumer’s practice of changing oil at extended intervals.
• Verbal notification of refusal to honor a claim is insufficient.
The refusal should be in writing and must state the specific reason a claim has been refused. If you still think a failure
is due to a defect in vehicle manufacture or workmanship, contact the dealership, district manager, manufacturer
or arbitrator.
• The AMSOIL limited warranty assumes protection where the vehicle warranty stops.
AMSOIL offers protection to its customers through the AMSOIL limited warranty. Customers following AMSOIL
recommendations are protected by the AMSOIL limited warranty if they experience a failure caused by an
AMSOIL product.
• Customers are covered.
As long as customers maintain their vehicles properly and follow either the vehicle manufacturer recommendations or
AMSOIL recommendations, their vehicles are warranted against failure by either the vehicle manufacturer or AMSOIL
INC. In the unlikely event of an AMSOIL lubrication-related issue, the AMSOIL limited warranty covers the cost to repair
or replace the damaged components.
AMSOIL INC., 925 Tower Ave., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 Printed in U.S.A. © Copyright 2013 G2488 12/13

 

Have fun in court buddy. We all know the laws that are supposed to protect us but the onus is on the customer to go through the hoops to get justice. It's not a fun process. There's plenty of cases of Amisol walking away from warranty claims, just enter Amisol + warranty denial in a Google search. Add tacomaworld into that search and you'll find several more from members here you can talk to. I'm not knocking Amisol, but without testing your own oil and making adjustments to the oil change intervals you are gambling. Amisols extended intervals are just a guess based on someone else's unique engine and not your own.

Just FYI it took Mobil over 50 million dollars of development to test and certify there latest synthetic diesel motor oil to the manufacture standard. It took them multiple tries and a ton of developement work to meet the standard. Something tells me Amisols oil wouldn't pass, there's no way they put the budget into development that is necessary to meet the demanding standards of today's motor oils.

Not knocking Amisol, but saying it's the best because users say it's the best is a not a logical statement. They may be the best, but everything about the company tells me they are a smoke and mirrors operation like any snake oil salesman. Just my personal opinion.

 

Thanks mycroft.
It's been a while since I read Amsoil's warrantee, it's even more limited and full of BS than than it used to be. I also noticed that where their Signature Series used to advertise 25K intervals up front and boldly it's now buried with the other stuff about the oil, and it still mandates the use of their $$$ filter.

 

I think everyone can see the nonsense here but as just one example, this lengthy Amsoil document says "Automakers may not void warranties based solely on an owner’s practice of extending oil drain intervals." This is wrong. Toyota specifies and states repeatedly in my owner's manual that failure to follow maintenance requirements can interfere with the warranty.

Then at the end Amsoil says you'll either be covered by Amsoil's warranty or the manufacturer's, so they're as much as admitting that you'll need their warranty because the manufacturer will tell you to take a hike.

At the bare minimum you'd be in for a court battle with some big company that's got a legal staff and all the time in the world to stall. And why would you go through this rather than simply using proven, tested Mobil 1 and following the maintenance schedule?

 

It doesn't have to be Mobil 1 to be a good synthetic. We sell Mobil commercially and personally I think Pennzoil Platnium is now a better synthetic. Just use a motor oil that meets the manufacturers specs and, as you said, follow the schedule if you want to keep your warranty without risking a battle with your dealer.

After warranty, use oil testing services to determine your change intervals if you want to extended your oil change intervals. Following an oil companies recommendation isn't going to take into account your engines unique characteristics. I can't stress that enough.

 

Realistically, Walmart's house brand dino oil probably covers all the requirements and I think it's $12/5 qts., anything better is just better than required.

Automakers all have service requirements and none that I know of allow less service because one is using 'better oil'. Also, sludge damage is clearly a warrantee void in every one I've read, regardless the cause. If there's sludge caused by a malfunction of the engine it'll be up to you to prove their engine caused the sludge, again, against their attorney. The numerous dealer serviced 4cyl. Camrys that sludged and shitted out are a testament. I read several stories of dealer junkies who's cars needed a motor and no warrantee because it was sludge damage, even tho the records showed all service on time. Some recuperated their losses.

 

I wasn't telling people to use Wal Mart Dino lol. Saying Mobil 1 is the end all be all of synthetic oils is silly, almost as silly as saying Amisol is the best because they have a limited warranty. Mobil has changed there formulation several times in the last few years to cut costs and keep pricing in line with the Castrols of the world. The current Mobil 1 is not a product I'd use personally over Pennzoil and keep in mind I sell Mobil at work. If a synthetic passed all the manufacturers tests no dealership is going to question your choice.

If you like Mobil 1 stick with it. It will serve you well and it's still a good product. I just think there are now better oils out there, but that's only my personal opinion.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at talking about oil sludging. All oils will sludge if you use them for too long an interval. The detergents break down and that causes the oil to sludge. Everyone's additive package is different and that's why, if you want to extend your change you oil change intervals post warranty, you should rely on testing your own oil. I don't personally stretch my intervals and never will. With private oil testing available though it's pretty easy to find the optimum oil change interval and if you're after warranty I don't think you have much to lose so I can see why people do it.

 

The sludging commentary was aimed at Amsoil's claim that a manufacturer can't void your warrantee because of sludge.