Taco PRO Owners: Interested in a spring upgrade for front?

TBH, you are not alone. My head went there first as well, but then I remembered that wheel travel is about double of shock travel on our trucks.

 

Go on Amazon and look at the questions for spacer lifts.... its nothing but "how does a .5 inch spacer get a 1 inch lift? this is false advertising!"

 

Still running stock UCA’s?

 

I am on stock UCAs. I have not been able to get an alignment yet but from what I understand I don't think this will require new UCAs.

 

Over 3 inches on non-pros, 2 inches on pros usually need control arms. So we are good without getting arms right now. These springs bring us a 2.25 inches over stock non-pro models.

 

Will these work for 2020’s or just 17-19?

 

Only 17-19. 2020-2021 will be a completely different part # as the springs are different (not released yet).

 

https://eibach.com/us/2281/E30-82-069-03-22-TOYOTA-Tacoma-TRD-Pro-pro-lift-kit

There's the link for the '20-'21 springs. When they go live you can order there.

 

That looks really nice. One of my favorite colors also. I’m currently debating 265/75 or 285. Thinking the 265s may look a little small so I’m leaning towards 285 BFG KO2.

 

What are the pros/cons on going Eibach (spings) vs Westcott Design front 1.5 lift kit (collar and spacer)? Anyone have experience?

 

No experience, but I am an internet engineer and have slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

TL;DR: Either should work fine for a slight lift but I prefer the Eibach solution.

Total amount of travel should remain the same as stock for both kits.

From resting height, the Eibach kit will have slightly more up-travel and slightly less down-travel than stock. Fully compressed and fully extended wheel position remains the same as far as geometry (as long as the longer spring does not fully compress and limit the amount of up-travel before the shock stroke is used up).

The Westcott kit seems to get its lift from a combination of spacer and slight preload. So, I would guess that it also has slightly more up-travel and slightly less down-travel than stock. However, due to the spacer, the geometry is changed a little, so fully extended and fully compressed wheel positions should be lower (more distance from fender to hub center at both extremes).

As with a lot of choices, what is "better" will depend on your current situation and what your goals are.

If you have additional weight up front and your goal is to get closer to stock height (minimal lift), my *opinion* is that the Eibach kit will be better at getting you closer to stock height/geometry/performance.

If you just have bigger tires you are trying to make look right, either one should be fine.

If you are trying to eliminate rubbing, wheel offset and adjusting alignment seems to do more for this issue. If your only rubbing is at full wheel stuff, the spacer in the Westcott kit may give you that extra bit that you need, but a better alignment may be more what you need (travel is not straight up and down).

Personally, I am not a fan of using preload to adjust ride height. Mainly because it only works up to a point. I'm a "form follows function" kind of person and frown on spacers without the proper adjustments elsewhere. Proper spring length and spring rate matched with proper damping for your particular weight and intended use are the keys for getting proper performance.

To me, the Eibach solution is simpler and keeps things closer to how the truck was engineered. Both give about the same amount of lift.

 

Wow! Thank you so much for the knowledge bomb. I think I am leaning towards the springs for the reasons you mentioned, and also since I learned Eibach designed the OEM stock pro springs!

 

Anyone experience ride quality differences from the springs, both good and bad?

 

I have never slept in a Holiday Inn Express, but I thought that the Eibach springs achieve the 1.3" of lift by preloading the shock. That's why Mark and his crew went through extensive testing to make sure that the amount of preload applied to the shocks would still allow them to function in the proper rebound zone. How is the spring preload different from spring perch preload?

 

As far as I'm aware, there are only 2 people on here with these springs actually installed. I have only had them on for 3 days and have driven maybe a total of 10 miles on them without an alignment. So I am going to withhold my opinions for now. I believe @79CHKCHK has been riding on the prototypes for a while now so he might be able to provide a better answer

 

I didn't mean to imply that all preload is bad. All springs have a bit of preload, otherwise we wouldn't have to use a spring compressor (or that crazy jack method).

Preload is a bit weird. For a given spring, once you put weight on it, it will settle to its nominal height and length. On a coilover, if you then add more preload, you aren't really compressing the spring more while weighted, you are just pushing the coilover lower in its travel and *possibly* limiting the amount of up-travel that is left. The spring should stay about the same length overall when loaded, you've just changed the spring perch position. When you take weight off of it and let it fully extend, the spring is shorter than before and has more preload on it, but it doesn't really matter a whole lot if it hasn't limited your overall travel (unless you jump your truck without limit straps). As long as your amount of preload doesn't limit your travel, you should be fine. But, there's only so far you can go before that starts happening.

Eibach lengthened the spring to achieve the preload, which in theory should maintain about the same amount of overall travel since they didn't move the perch position (this assumes the coil is not limited by binding). Most of the lift appears to come from the extra spring length, not extra preload, but both together help make sure the coilover performs as intended while giving a bit of lift.

Now, if you add a ton of weight and armor, you need to think about going up in spring rate to support the additional weight and keep things balanced. If you do that, though, you might also want to consider new shocks that are tuned for your spring rate/weight/intended use. All these things work together, so changing one part without changing others can result in poor performance and/or ride quality.

 

The extra spring length is what creates the extra preload on the shock. I'm with you on 99% of what you're saying but this one bit I can't quite compute.

I mean something is moving the shock up an additional 1.3" when you put on these springs. What is it if not the new, longer springs?

 

Keep in mind that the coilover is mounted about at the middle point of the LCA, so increasing the length of the coilover by 0.5" results in about 1" of actual lift (actual wheel travel is about double of the shock stroke length).

It is basically the longer spring, not preload. Preload only matters when unweighted and has no effect on lift. Changing the spring perch position can also have an effect on lift and results in more preload. But the preload itself is NOT what gives lift. Preload does not affect the actual spring rate.

When weighted, the new Eibach spring will be longer than the stock spring (it is the same spring rate, just longer), and perches are in the same place. So, it results in lift. When unweighted, it likely has a bit more preload than stock. The spring is only about 0.75" longer than stock, and results in about double that in lift for a stock truck, which makes sense.

 

It's official: I have no idea what's going on.

 

LOL, I am oversimplifying it and am nowhere near an expert, and some of my info is likely completely wrong. But some of this is simple math. The additional preload with the Eibach springs will have an effect on how the suspension works and does partly affect the lift, but it's mainly due to the spring length itself (which provides more preload). Let's make some assumptions here.

spring rate = 600-lb/in
stock preload = 2"

In this stock setup, it is already preloaded for 1200 lbs. of weight/force (2 x 600, and keep in mind there are levers involved so you can't do a straight vehicle weight calculation). It will take more than 1200 lbs of force to compress the shock any more than this. Apply 1800 lbs., and the spring will compress an inch from the current preload. Every additional 600 lbs of force compresses it another inch.

(Eibach springs)
spring rate = 600-lb/in
new preload = 2.75" (spring is 0.75" longer but perches are in the same spot)

In this setup, it can handle up to 1650 lbs. of weight/force before it starts compressing more. BUT -- again, every 600 lbs of force beyond that compresses it another inch, just like with the stock spring.

So, now assume that the shock has 4" of total travel, and that when weighted, it is sitting in the exact middle of that travel in STOCK form. This means that each corner has 2400 lbs of force being applied when sitting at rest: 1200 lbs is handled by the preload, and another 1200 lbs has pushed it down another 2".

Now take that same amount of force and apply it to the Eibach setup. It can hold 1650 lbs before moving. So, 2400 - 1650 = 750. 750/600 = 1.25. So, with the same weight, the Eibach spring only compresses 1.25", which is 0.75" less than stock. And that is exactly how much longer the spring is.

If the stock springs were adjustable, I could crank down the preload another 0.75" and get the same result. However, the spring would be that much closer to fully compressed, possibly limiting my up-travel by that same amount. At the same time, down-travel has been decreased. This is how the Wescott kit achieves lift, slightly increasing preload plus a spacer. Note how they only went so far with more preload, though.

Now. Say these are adjustable coilovers and I get a bit crazy and crank them down another 2" to get just a leetle more lift. Now, at the same weight and force, my shocks can handle ALL the weight of my truck without compressing one bit at rest. But how is that going to feel hitting a bump? Likely very harsh, and I now have zero down-travel to soak up pot holes.

So, preload matters, but it matter more to have it in the right range for your weight and spring rate. It has to be balanced.