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Tacoma Headlight Bulb Replacement Tutorial?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Rogue33, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Oct 14, 2020 at 5:41 AM
    #21
    dbbd1

    dbbd1 Well-Known Member

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    But you can salt their oats.
     
  2. Oct 14, 2020 at 6:09 AM
    #22
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Friendly Curmudgeon

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    Drop by any Advance Auto, AutoZone, etc. and you’ll see a big selection of Sylvania LED headlight bulbs, the government hasn’t made any new regulations forcing them off the market. Tungsram has started making LED headlights as well, like others they don’t perform as well as some of the best halogens:
    3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights
     
  3. Oct 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM
    #23
    Crow Horse

    Crow Horse Well-Known Member

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    As I've gotten older, my opinions have solidified but try in earnest to maintain an open mind....

    I interpreted the above as being somewhat disparaging. I understand the limitations of the written word and if I have misinterpreted the above, then please disregard the following.

    The OP (crashnburn80) of the various lighting upgrades has invested enormous amounts of time, energy, and money to provide us with helpful information that most probably is not available to us. Although it's been a few years since his original posts on the subjects of lighting, he still continues to offer advice and help to those who are learning.We are the beneficiaries of his efforts. I for one am extremely thankful for his efforts and sharing and I believe many others are as well.

    To keep current with ever changing lighting technologies would be a full time job in and of itself. It's not reasonable to expect that to occur.

    I'm not looking to start a pissing match. If I've misunderstood you, then please accept my apologies in advance. If I did understand it correctly, then reassessing your statement is worthy of consideration.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  4. Oct 14, 2020 at 6:42 AM
    #24
    TheCochese

    TheCochese The Bronze T4R OG

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    If you're going to say he doesn't know what he is talking about, at least tag him. @crashnburn80
     
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  5. Oct 14, 2020 at 6:50 AM
    #25
    Unchained 5150

    Unchained 5150 Rick

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    I was waiting for someone to tag him, I thought the Ultimate Headlight Upgrade thread would be enough but it wasn't.
     
  6. Oct 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM
    #26
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Friendly Curmudgeon

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    You guys crack me up. “Daaaadyyy! Bobby’s putting in LED bulbs in his headlights again!!!!!”
    I posted a link to a good LED test above, others have posted good links, people can read it and/or do their own research or testing or rely on their own observations. Up to them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  7. Oct 14, 2020 at 7:22 AM
    #27
    jbrnigan

    jbrnigan Well-Known Member

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    My comments were not intended to be disparaging, only to point out that those who post their opinions or reference the opinions of others as "fact", do a disservice to those that have a genuine interest in such.

    I have great respect for (crashnburn) and his investment in time and money researching LED compatibility in Tacoma headlights. His testing analysis supports his conclusions. But, in a paper published last year:
    Liu, Y. and Bullough, J., "Evaluation of After-Market Light Emitting Diode Headlight Bulbs," SAE Technical Paper 2019-01-0850, 2019, suggests that retrofit LED headlamps meet many (some) of the testing criteria as set forth by FMVSS-108. Suggesting that the evolution of LED lighting is closing the gap (my conclusion). Also,
    because of my personal experience with the Beam Tech product, I disagree with his (crashnburn) general conclusions.

    No apologies are expected or needed. We can agree to disagree. Respectively.
     
  8. Oct 14, 2020 at 7:44 AM
    #28
    Crow Horse

    Crow Horse Well-Known Member

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    If I've gleamed this correctly,......

    "Several different LED replacement bulb kits, each designed to replace a conventional 55-W H11 halogen bulb, were purchased and tested in three different low-beam headlight units. Photometric measurements at several critical test points for headlight performance revealed that none of the resulting distributions met all of the test point photometric requirements. Some intensity values were lower than allowed minima while others exceeded allowed maxima....Even though some bulbs more closely matched halogen performance, performance for different headlights using the same LED bulb could vary widely. These findings suggest that using after-market LEDs to replace halogen bulbs can compromise headlighting performance..."

    Doesn't this suggest otherwise?
     
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  9. Oct 14, 2020 at 8:12 AM
    #29
    jbrnigan

    jbrnigan Well-Known Member

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    Good point! If you know someone with access, or for 33 bucks, you can download and read the complete paper. My read was, yes, some measured values met FMVSS-108 testing criteria, some did not, suggesting that replacement LED lighting is closing photometric requirement gap rapidly (compared to units sold a few years ago). And then maybe not. "These findings suggest that using after-market LEDs to replace halogen bulbs can compromise headlighting performance..." the object word in his sentence is "CAN", not "will" or "does".
    We can agree to disagree regarding whether technology can or will catch up. I believe it will and, (my experience) we may be very close today. Only similar testing, using photometric test labs, can answer the question. With the proliferation of replacement LED bulbs, I would expect this SAE paper to be updated,(that's what published engineers do LOL) and may be this will all end.
     
  10. Oct 14, 2020 at 8:16 AM
    #30
    BillsSR5

    BillsSR5 Looking out for #1

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  11. Oct 14, 2020 at 10:45 AM
    #31
    Crow Horse

    Crow Horse Well-Known Member

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    This is a complete wild ass guess, but..... I'm sure the technology will improve but I'm always skeptical of most electronics coming out of China. That said, when the technology improves and wide scale manufacturing catches up (which includes quality and quality control) then LED's could be an acceptable replacement for halogen headlights without any reservations.
     
  12. Oct 14, 2020 at 11:23 AM
    #32
    TegoTaco

    TegoTaco Well-Known Member

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    So no group buy?
     
  13. Oct 14, 2020 at 11:59 AM
    #33
    jbrnigan

    jbrnigan Well-Known Member

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    I agree... Last time I looked around my place, about the only things that didn't come from China, were my Tacoma, Highlander, Ford Super Duty (other than some content), Jack Daniels, Bud Light and my wife....LOL
     
  14. Oct 14, 2020 at 12:01 PM
    #34
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Friendly Curmudgeon

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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  15. Oct 14, 2020 at 12:58 PM
    #35
    BillsSR5

    BillsSR5 Looking out for #1

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  16. Oct 14, 2020 at 1:08 PM
    #36
    TACOMA2NDGEN

    TACOMA2NDGEN Well-Known Member

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  17. Oct 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM
    #37
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Where to start. The thread you reference was originally posted 5 years ago, however it is continually updated with the latest products and if you scroll to the bottom of the original post, it was last updated last month. My lighting threads are meant to be a go-to resource for the lighting platform, comparing all viable options, not just a single product review/solution post. Currently waiting on the latest just released Philips +200 bulbs to employ in the thread, which look to be the highest performing legal H4 made yet. What many fail to understand is that products optically designed for a halogen bulb, work best with a halogen bulb. The light assembly and the bulb are designed to work together as a system and an LED (as hard as it may try), is not a halogen bulb.

    LEDs have come a long way in the last 5 years, and I am always testing the latest LED releases. They do better in some applications than others. In a 3rd Gen projector a good LED will give you a decently uniform pattern, but the intensity and distance projection will not match a performance halogen bulb and in most cases not even match a stock halogen bulb. Glare isn't an issue thanks to the projector light shield. The hot spot tends to be dipped too low in the pattern because the LED is much larger than the halogen causing increased foreground light which make people believe they are better, even though they are often worse, regardless of whatever marketing promises are made. You can see my review of the latest LEDs from a reputable manufacture to hit the market in post #3445 here.

    Some LEDs have claimed to meet an SAE compliance pattern in very specific reflector headlight assemblies. These are very rectangular assemblies with a single filament bulb, like the F-150. This is important because a wide and short assembly minimizes the design flaws of the LED bulb, short assemblies don't use much of the vertical light which an LED lacks and the wider assembly reduces the effect of the LED being too wide compared to a halogen bulb. The single filament bulb design is also critical, because that means all the reflector mirror surfaces are calibrated for the low beam pattern, so if the light geometry is a little off it is all still aimed (though not perfectly) for the low beam. However, even companies that were able to meet this very specific use case list this on their website.

    Large round dual filament light assemblies like are found in the 2nd Gen with a 9003/H4 are the worst case scenario for LEDs. Significant portions of the reflector above and below the bulb are not used, meaning the areas where those reflector surfaces are pointing lack light in the pattern creating a very blotchy and inconsistent pattern compared to the halogen bulb for which it was designed. See this post #2029 here as an example demonstrating the issue with the latest Philips H4 LEDs, compared to the previous Philips H4 LEDs compared to stock. Even worse for the 2nd Gen is the assembly contains high beam reflector surfaces in the low beam assembly, meaning if the lighting geometry is off (as it is with replacement LEDs) some light will likely end up hitting the high beam reflector surfaces rather than only the low beam reflectors causing significantly more glare than an assembly that is designated to low beam only. No amount of aiming down solves this problem, and having to adjust your headlights down reduces your distance projection and only compounds the LEDs problem of distance projection, leading to you being able to outrun your headlights. Most name brand manufactures do not make dual filament LEDs for this reason.

    BeamTech is an awful design and archaic low quality product that is downright dangerous. You wouldn't be the first to fall for it and also perceive that it is better. See post #1885 here, where another member swore they were really great but science says otherwise. The output doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for a headlight. Common perception issue is that increased foreground light makes it seem much brighter, especially being whiter light. Headlights should minimize foreground light and maximize distance light. However, people naturally favor foreground light, making human judgement poor for determining a good headlight and why so many swear their awful performing LEDs are actually better than stock when that is not typically the case.

    So yes, the original headlight thread is 5 years old, but it is constantly updated with the latest viable products for the 9003/H4 lighting platform. For 9003/H4, LEDs are not a viable option for all the reasons mentioned above as recognized by many major lighting manufactures, hence they are not included in that thread. If you absolutely had to use LEDs, Philips would be the way to go as the only major credible manufacture to make one for that platform. If you had a 3rd Gen, things would be different, and you can see all the continued testing of the most promising LED products for 3rd gen in post #3 here. You might find this interview with one of the worlds top automotive lighting experts on replacement LEDs interesting, and also note the forum post cited in the interview. The appropriate way to run LEDs is in a assembly designed for LEDs, so that the both parts of the system (bulb/emitter and optics) is designed to work together, producing higher performing output while ensuring he pattern meets the SAE compliance spec, as covered in my SAE LED fog thread.

    But to answer your question, you need to cut your boots or run bootless. Both can allow dust/water into the headlight assembly and degrade performance. This is a known issue with many cheap poorly designed LEDs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  18. Oct 14, 2020 at 2:55 PM
    #38
    Unchained 5150

    Unchained 5150 Rick

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    I’m just waiting for the Philips +200’s to come in to test
     
  19. Oct 14, 2020 at 2:59 PM
    #39
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I missed the first batch as I was focused on the new H11 Philips Pro +150s and didn't expect the +200 H4s to sell out so quickly. I signed up for the email alert for when they come back in to snag a set.
     
  20. Oct 14, 2020 at 3:01 PM
    #40
    Unchained 5150

    Unchained 5150 Rick

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    We'll probably get them at the same time then
     
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