The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

I’ve pulled the data for the Sports and Pros in yellow/4000k/white. It is impressive for sure, especially the output on the Pros. I need to do some more comparison pictures with competing products before posting up the review. Should have it posted by this weekend.

 

sounds like your saying... get the pros and don’t look back? Haha

 

looking to upgrade to yellow fogs so...

 

Anybody know if these are still on sale and where?? Looking to pick up a set of pros. Thanks!

 

I'm itching to buy a set too. Of course Lightwerkz is having a sales promotion and excluding Diode Dynamics from it

 

can anyone tell me Romans website address. I can’t remember it for the life of me.

 

look up neogarage_

 

Neo garage

 

Thank you!!

 

That they seem to run exceptionally hot should give you pause.

Past that, there are some inconsistencies as well with the marketing claims of "LED Emitter: Luxeon Z ES" and "2,262" "Raw Output (Lumens)" for the Sport series, combined with the specs of the emitters themselves. https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/542...-datasheet-pdf shows that the nominal bin for the highest-output emitters in the series, LXZ2-577T (5700°K) or LXZ2-657T (6500°K) is 250 lm (260 lm nom.) at 700 mA. Fully driven (while fully cooled) they will produce 1.9x the 700 mA level. The use of four emitters was confirmed with the photographs posted earlier. The Sports are said to run hot, with the Pros reported to be so hot to handle as to require gloves. The luminosity needs to be downrated by 10-15% or more at high junction temperatures. The absolute maximum ratings table indicates that the drive current also needs to be reduced at higher junction temperatures, so getting anywhere near 1.9x is unlikely with a hot device, perhaps more like 1.3-1.4x at 135°C Tj (limit is 150°C). Hitting over 565 lm per emitter in a hot device seems like a far stretch, even with the top-binned flux parts ("W" is 300 lm). No idea how twice that is obtainable with four Luxeon Z ES emitters (Pro series claims 5,796 raw lumens).

There's a lot of hand-waving around SAE compliance as well. Note that the word "pattern" is included everywhere compliance is claimed. If it were only one place, I could see it being to refer to which of the two patterns of the light was under discussion. However, its repetition in the "covers" video opens the possibility that only the pattern is SAE compliant, not the entire light. There are also public statements that, while the Sport pattern meets the requirements of SAE J583 F3, the Pro pattern does not, only meeting the (ancient) SAE J583 F, not the F3 standard.

 

I'm ok with all that.

 

I'm pretty impressed with these on my 4Runner. DD SS3 Pro fogs light up an incredible amount on both sides of the interstate when it's pitch black outside. I can see a couple hundred extra feet to my right and it's still a great cutoff. The driving lights are awesome too. They have great distance. Definitely hundreds of yards of extra visibility when it's legitimately pitch black out in the country.

 

is that all fog or is that bleed off from your hood pods?

 

Hey @Diode Dynamics, how long do we have to wait for someone over there to put a SS3 on a bandsaw, and create competition for the S2?

 

FWIW - The Sport model uses 5700K Luxeon Z ES. I wouldn't call the sports hot at all, they are easily handled after extended run times, they only draw 14.5w based on my measurement which coincides with their spec. The Pros use a different emitter from Cree. The Pros are quiet hot and while heat reduces output, the measured output performance specs are said to be from stable output.

The Sport pattern is said to meet the SAE J583 F3 requirements and the Pros the old SAE J583 F requirements. As far as pattern, the gradient sharpness and light above the cut off are all stated to be within respective compliance limits.

 

All this info makes it hard to make a decision... lol

 

That's from the fogs. The hood spill with the driving lights isn't bad at all, especially compared to my squadron pros.

 

them thangs are bright! Looks like you don’t even need the hood lights anymore haha.

 

Happy to answer your questions rather than continue the speculation.

No manufacturer's "raw" lumen value is accurate. You can try to figure it out based on the LED datasheet for every other company too, but I tried and I couldn't. Seriously, I did. So the number we report is the maximum theoretical limit with the LEDs at cold temperatures, because that's what everyone else reports too.

If you want a real lumen value, you'll see that provide measured lumens too, and we are one of the only companies to do so. We only reported measured lumens originally, but people said we were ripping off people because our lights were half as bright. No, not quite... it's just a real measurement, not an inaccurate raw lumen value like everyone else reports. Unfortunately, to prevent being called a ripoff and liars simultaneously, we have to post both raw and measured lumens.

I would strongly recommend looking at intensity instead, which is the light actually shining in a specific direction where you want it. No factory lamps are rated with lumens, because lumens are an omnidirectional measurement. If you want to light something up in front of you, candela ratings are far more useful. That's why all SAE and DOT standard require specific candela ratings, and do not deal with lumens at all, except for actual replacement bulbs for headlights.

Basically, lumens in aftermarket automotive lighting products are a terrible metric that are highly misleading, because they are difficult to measure and validate. The only reason they are used is because it doesn't cost a dime for someone to take a lumen number from an LED datasheet and assign that their product. We have lab equipment to measure both lumens and candela. Again, candela is much, much more relevant.

I am not sure what you mean by the hand-waving about compliance. They are fully SAE compliant. It says it on the product pages, on the product itself, on the packaging... it is made clear. If you think we emphasized the beam pattern part of that in our marketing, I guess that's because most people care about that part, not the impact and UV testing. But all tests were completed to the relevant standards, and they are compliant lighting devices.

Finally, J583 was last updated in 2011, neither standard is "ancient" by any means. F3 is simply a homologated standard to match ECE requirements to make things easier for automakers, and does allow for slightly more max intensity at the expense of a narrower pattern.

Paul

 

I would much prefer to look at not just single-point intensity, but at its distribution as well. Regrettably, your pull sheet only provides a single number, peak candela, from which the others (lux at xxx m) can be trivially calculated. A meaningful isolux plot (not the undimensioned, "artist's concept", birds-eye drawing given) continues to be missing from your documentation. A cross-beam plot, such as is presented at https://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/575.html, is preferred. The labeled and dimensioned birds-eye projections of the bottom half of the cross-beam plot, such as Hella publishes with their lamps, are helpful, but, unfortunately do not speak to light spill above the aiming line.

http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/products/light-bars/led-light-bar-350/

Provides lumen output (which is an integrated, not omnidirectional measurement), candela output and an admittedly weak birds-eye illumination plot. The more-detailed plot for that specific light can be found at https://www.hella.com/truck/assets/media_global/LED_AuxiliaryLights_HELLA_EN.pdf

When you state that the lamps are SAE J581 or J583 compliant, does that only include the pattern, or do they meet the rest of the requirements, such as vibration, moisture, dust, corrosion, internal heat, color, and plastic materials?

Given that Cree is a well-respected name in LED emitters, you might want to update your website to indicate that you use their parts in your Pro series.

I'd like to consider the Diode Dynamics lights for my application, especially given both the size and the price point at which they are offered compared to, for example, JW Speaker. However, at least for me, the inconsistencies and lack of information makes it challenging.