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The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by crashnburn80, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Apr 5, 2020 at 6:27 AM
    #3021
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    Check the Classifieds for a used set?
     
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  2. Apr 5, 2020 at 7:18 AM
    #3022
    herecomesace

    herecomesace Active Member

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    +1 for the DD Sports....15% off right now. I lucked out and got free local shipping so I paid $170.
     
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  3. Apr 5, 2020 at 8:13 AM
    #3023
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The Diode Dynamics sports are $170 with the 15% off sale and outstanding performers. The most budget friendly option is the OEM Toyota LED fogs for about $118 covered in post #727: Toyota LED fogs
     
  4. Apr 6, 2020 at 12:08 PM
    #3024
    chstaco

    chstaco Active Member

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    SS3s arrived today. Swapping to clear lenses for the 4000k fogs. :bananadance:

    IMG_20200406_124044.jpg
     
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  5. Apr 7, 2020 at 8:12 AM
    #3025
    308savage

    308savage Well-Known Member

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    SS3 Pro’s mounted to replace the KC Slimlites. No night pics but the initial impression of them on inside the garage was impressive. Now I need to find some time at night to aim them better.

    E7B3DF61-8FBF-4994-86D0-ABE7B387E88B.jpg
     
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  6. Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM
    #3026
    Taquitoma

    Taquitoma Well-Known Member

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    So I'm currently running the regular BD Squadron Sports WC as fogs. Obviously the glare is pretty prevalent so they have to be switched off with oncoming traffic and I've found they're pretty useless in fog or snow, as one would expect. However, I do like how much they light up the surroundings on a dark and empty road.
    Seeing the new SAE BD fogs and how they have that black bracket on the lens, got me thinking...what if I were to order the SAE lens and install them on my current non-SAE fogs?
    I'm not too worried about the on-paper SAE compliance, so much so as just having a more practical fog light. Is that essentially what the SAE compliant squadrons are or do they also have a reduced output?
    Also, it looks like BD put out a "fix" to their orginal SAE design, did it actually improve the glare issue at all?
     
  7. Apr 9, 2020 at 11:58 AM
    #3027
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The SAE squadrons also have reduced output over the Squadron sports. The 'fix' optic is poor and actually significantly harms overall output, not just the excessive spill above the cut off. But it does reduce the spill, yes. I hope to post my pre/post fix comparison later today and you'll be better able to see what I mean. I know some others have done what you proposed and put the Baja SAE fix optic on the non-SAE squadrons and been very disappointed in the results.

    The DD SS3 Pros by comparison are 3x the output of the Baja pre-fix SAEs while having less spill above the horizon than the 'fix' optic. Baja specs state raw output is 27% higher on the Squadron Sport vs SAE. As a rough translation that should mean the DD SS3 Pros are approximately 2.35x higher intensity than the Squadron Sports while also having a compliant SAE pattern.
     
  8. Apr 9, 2020 at 12:30 PM
    #3028
    Taquitoma

    Taquitoma Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your detailed reply crash! I look forward to seeing the results.

    So if the DD pros are about 2.35x the instensity of the standard BD sports, and about 2x the instensity of the DD sports, would that make the DD sports more or less equivalent to the standard BD sports I'm currently running?
    I have to admit those come in at a much more attractive price...
     
  9. Apr 9, 2020 at 12:44 PM
    #3029
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    I'll let @crashnburn80 chime in, but you'll find that in the Diode Dynamics SS3 series fogs, the Sports have a much more well defined pattern / cutoff than the Pros. (I have the Pros BTW.) That makes the Sports much more "street friendly" for those that like to run with their fogs on all the time. Of course one needs to weigh that against the fact that the Pros put out more light. I try to run mine only when needed, but find myself going "Holy crap!" every time I turn them on. Still, you can't go wrong with the Sports.
     
    Stash419 likes this.
  10. Apr 9, 2020 at 12:46 PM
    #3030
    304_Taco

    304_Taco Well-Known Member

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    Diode dynamics has a 15% off code on their website right now if that will help convert you to the not so dark side :thumbsup:
     
  11. Apr 9, 2020 at 8:47 PM
    #3031
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Baja SAE 'fixed' optic comparison

    Recall that when Baja launched their Squadron SAE fogs, they were not actually SAE compliant as advertised as they had too much spill above the horizon and the cut offs were not sharp enough. You can see my original review calling out this flaw with updates in post #964 here. Baja claimed the error was a result of only simulating the pattern output without actually running the product through a compliance test. They issued a fix kit to correct the pattern to their customers free of charge. This covers the difference between the original optic, and the updated 'fixed' optic.

    Left is the original SAE lens vs right is the updated SAE lens, designed to reduce light spill above the cut off
    134FABDA-BD0C-469C-8C92-9569361C4240.jpg

    These are the instructions included with the fix kit.
    09F6A3F0-2D6C-490A-ABEE-0C60895FC1C8.jpg

    The aluminum block out plate insert already comes pressed into a new lens, so it seems odd they have the instructions showing installation of the block out plate into the lens. The fix kit does come with the new lens including the preinstalled block out plate, a new gasket and new mounting screw hardware.

    Installed it may not be super apparent when not in direct light. But under direct light it is easy to see the block out plate behind the lens, even moreso on the white optic.
    B013862F-F031-4AA6-91DF-F8484214EE4F.jpg

    So how well does it work?
    Photographing two wide angle patterns in the same shot side-by-side is challenging.
    Left is the revised fixed optic vs right is the original optic.
    B2B6FEAE-37A8-4C88-A976-298B5406B791.jpg

    There is a divider between the lights to minimize pattern overlap, even though it looks like one continuous pattern. If you look carefully, you can see the upper and lower panels outside of the main beam pattern have less light spill with the revised optic. So the new optic block out plates do reduce the light above and below the cut offs.

    However, when measuring the output of the new revised optic, the main part of the pattern has also suffered significant losses. Based on my measurements, the new optic takes a 30-33% peak intensity loss, for white and yellow respectively. This places the revised Baja SAE optic output intensity as the lowest performing product in this thread. The next lowest was the dated PIAA LED fogs were 160 lux and for comparison OEM stock H11 halogen fogs were 203 lux. And compared to the best in class Diode Dynamic SS3 Pros, the SS3s are 4.5x higher intensity than the revised Baja.

    3BD8042C-C537-42ED-BE20-5EE4AD6CD098.jpg D52BA620-1A12-41C5-BA5C-D1A6693E645F.jpg

    What I was really interested in doing was quantifying the change in a way that was far more in-depth than peak intensity, as a peak intensity metric is a bit overly simplistic. I was able to obtain some compliance raw test data for both optics, allowing me to run my own analysis on the results. Engineers love raw data.

    Below are my plots for the original optic output, the revised optic output and then using the computational plotting powers of Tecplot 360 I programmatically created a delta plot to demonstrate the losses sustained by the revised optic. I kept the contour scale consistent, so the plots are all relative to one another in contour intensity. Peak Cd values are all calculated programatically. The plots are fully interactive on my end to interrogate data at any point in the field.

    BajaOriginal.jpg

    BajaRevised.jpg

    This delta plot shows the losses from the revised optic expressed in positive values
    BajaDelta.jpg

    According to these lab results, the peak intensity output loss is about 25% with the new revised optic. Within 5-8% of my readings.

    What is interesting is based on my delta loss plot above, the largest losses occur within the heart of the beam pattern, not above the cut off as was intended with the revised optic. Spill above the horizon was reduced as intended, but the revised optic caused significantly greater collateral losses within the pattern. By my definition that would classify as a poorly engineered fix. Ideally you'd want to reduce the spill above the horizon while minimizing the harm to the output intensity of the main beam pattern. Hopefully they reconsider redesigning this product's optics with a more performant solution.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  12. Apr 9, 2020 at 9:05 PM
    #3032
    memario1214

    memario1214 Hotshot Offroad Moderator Vendor

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    Now he done it! Thanks for doing the research and testing here!
     
  13. Apr 10, 2020 at 4:23 AM
    #3033
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    So they designed a "shield" made out of foam instead of fixing the flawed optics - which would have required a new lens mold to be designed and built. Makes sense from a manufacturing cost standpoint. Makes little sense from a performance standpoint. At least most of their other LED lighting products are really nice! Thanks for taking the time to do another exhaustive test!
     
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  14. Apr 10, 2020 at 7:29 AM
    #3034
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Slight correction, the shield is metal not foam. I should mention that in my pot above. Edit: more specifically aluminum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  15. Apr 10, 2020 at 9:24 AM
    #3035
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    My bad. Thanks for correcting me. Still, who would think the addition of any type of shield wouldn't have a negative effect on light output? Especially when said shield looks to cover the majority of the original lens. It almost looks like the shields they used on headlights during WWII.

    Maybe sometime in the future they'll design and build a new lens mold with proper optics built in. They can even call it a completely new model. Meanwhile, Diode Dynamics is going to sell a lot more fogs with a proper design.
     
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  16. Apr 10, 2020 at 9:35 AM
    #3036
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    It does very much resemble the black out headlights of WWII which were used to help prevent ground vehicles from being sighted by aircraft at night. Below are some photos I took at the local Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum of such WWII headlights.

     
  17. Apr 10, 2020 at 10:05 AM
    #3037
    Philrab

    Philrab Well-Known Member

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    Have to thank @crashnburn80 for all of his work. I’m a fan of data and independent testing, his work swung me to Diode Designs Sports yellow dogs and I couldn’t be happier.

    Anyone on the fence, give them some serious thought.

     
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  18. Apr 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM
    #3038
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    Spot on! And just like the WWII design, the BD design (unfortunately) significantly reduces light output.
     
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  19. Apr 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM
    #3039
    FastEddy59

    FastEddy59 TTC #0061

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    I bought early & went with KC’s before the DD’s came out. Still very happy with the purchase. Yes, a big Data Boy to @crashnburn80 for shedding light on these & other lighting mods. Well done, Sir. :hattip:
     
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  20. Apr 10, 2020 at 10:55 AM
    #3040
    Philrab

    Philrab Well-Known Member

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    I see what you did there.
     
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