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The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by crashnburn80, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Nov 29, 2018 at 6:11 PM
    #461
    Bannerman

    Bannerman Can make minute rice in 58 seconds.

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    Please report back. Interested to see how they compare to stock. Mine will be here next week
     
  2. Nov 30, 2018 at 12:44 AM
    #462
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    You are right that information is incorrect, the table should say 'raw lumens'. One of the things I find frustrating with LEDs is few advertise actual lumens which makes comparisons very difficult. Halogen products are all specified in actual lumens, as are residential LED products.

    Factory 'fog lights' can vary in quality and function significantly. In many vehicles these are merely decretive toys placed on a vehicle to appease the buyer, most people use them incorrectly anyway, so in some ways toy lights are better for those that run them all the time when they shouldn't. The TRD fogs are a very unique ultra wide angle fog that are designed for maximum side projection for situational awareness ideal for trail use. With my truck a little over 1' from the wall it can project light to the side roughly 10'. Quality is all over the place depending on the vehicle, but the TRD fogs are well designed for a specific purpose and achieve that purpose very well.

    8AarP%wLQOyQH0jR2LOEIA.jpg
    There are yellow fog options for the OEM fogs. Osram Fog Breaker 2600k, Nokya Hyper Yellow 2500k and Optilux Extreme Xenon yellow bulbs 2500k. These are more deep selective yellow than true amber. All these are Asian made bulbs. Of the 3, I would be most inclined to try the Osram bulbs as they also claim to be a high efficiency bulb whereas the others do not. However, this is not the Osram you always see me promote, Fog Breakers are made by Osram's Chinese division. It is made by a quality brand but will still be a 'Made in China' product, results may vary.

    While colored filters over the bulb reduce output, in the case of yellow it is filtering out the blue light to shift the pattern to more yellow. Halogens produce very little blue light, so the output loss from using a yellow filter is very minimal. Unlike using a blue filter to remove the yellow light which is the bulk of the halogen spectrum.

    If looking for a replacement housing, KC G4s will be the best by far for beam spread. But they will not come close to the spread of the specialized wide angle TRD fogs. If you like the spread, you may try changing the bulbs to the Fog Breakers and if not satisfied change to the G4s, just because comparatively the Fog Breakers are not expensive. Easiest place to find them is ebay since they are an international product.

    Funny you should ask about the aux lighting as this is something I have been evaluating on my own truck. And like you I am not a fan of light bars, especially after seeing their performance in person. The most important thing in aux lighting for street use is to keep the light source in front of the hood. Ditch lights and roof bars all do far more harm than good by causing massive glare off the hood which harms your night vision by causing your eyes to constrict causing distance vision loss. And then when you turn the aux lights off your vision is far worse off than before you turned them on, and it can take 15 minutes for your night vision to recover. By placing lights in-front of the hood, you receive no glare from the output. Of course without an aftermarket bumper mounting lighting ahead of the hood is a challenge. Assuming we are not talking about light bars and don't have an aftermarket plate bumper, one option is a bull bar, personally not a fan. The other option is going with some sort of mesh grill and mounting lights behind the grill. You then need to consider pattern, personally I'd like a driving beam pattern. Pencil beams are too focused, and some wide-angle beam is too defused for what I am looking at. I want max distance projection with a bit of a wider spread than stock. The KC lights seem to perform exceptionally well, leading me to evaluating their Pro-Sport 6 LED lights vs their Daylighter Halogen lights. All the specs place the halogen Daylighter lights as superior performers at roughly half the cost, and I even confirmed it with KC. The Daylighters were devised from aircraft landing lights. Lux at 10m for a driving pattern, Daylighter spread (which is a little wider than driving, but most similar) is 1962 lux, Pro-sport LED 1310 lux. The lights that are half the cost produce almost 50% greater intensity while also covering a greater illuminated area. The halogen Daylighters will be bulkier and consume more power but produce vastly superior output numbers. Chose what characteristics are most inline with your needs.

    In my opinion, brighter seems very likely, outperforming the wide-throw TRD not so much. LEDs are directional, trying to get the directional light to go nearly 90 degrees to the side without completely sacrificing forward facing performance would be a significant challenge. Pure speculation, but I see this as a retooling setup of modifying an existing housing rather than building a completely new one. Based on the existing housing design, it is unlikely the could remotely match the TRD fog side projection.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  3. Nov 30, 2018 at 1:00 AM
    #463
    m603holden

    m603holden @Koditten Pirate Radio member #063

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    If science is saying the stock TRD fogs are wider I guess I cant argue that. But in real world seat time theres a corner I turn the fogs on at a 4 way downhill hairpin just to see where the edge of the dirt road is. There's a big drop right at the edge of the road. With the amber fogs I feel I can see around that corner way better. If it's not the width of the beam maybe it's just the amount of light up to that edge now or the color difference?

    Either way 2 weeks in and I've seen 3 New England snow storms, 2 rain storms, and fog. They've performed awesome in everything.

    IMG_20181129_230446.jpg

    Side note. I did hit a really heavy snow squall. Warm wet huge flakes. 30 minutes into the drive the snow did start to block the light. That didn't happen in any of the other storms. Just something to note though.
     
  4. Nov 30, 2018 at 10:23 AM
    #464
    Murphinator

    Murphinator Well-Known Member

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  5. Nov 30, 2018 at 11:24 AM
    #465
    Taylor@KC HiLiTES

    Taylor@KC HiLiTES Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Good catch you guys, thank you. I'll see if I can have an updated data sheet made to ensure that specifically state raw lumens.
     
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  6. Nov 30, 2018 at 2:15 PM
    #466
    catastrofe

    catastrofe Well-Known Member

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    There’s a. Adjustment knob that’s independent of the single mounting screw. Allows for vertical adjustment only, not horizontal.
     
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  7. Nov 30, 2018 at 5:29 PM
    #467
    MadRiverTaco

    MadRiverTaco Join TW, they said. It's free, they said

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    @crashnburn80 so I should perform my install about 20-25’ away from a wall to achieve the most accurate adjustments correct?
     
  8. Nov 30, 2018 at 6:04 PM
    #468
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Generally speaking that is correct. If you haven’t already installed them, do one at a time, adjust to match the OEM cutoff then install the other and adjust to match. Much easier than having to figure out the adjustment from scratch.
     
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  9. Nov 30, 2018 at 6:05 PM
    #469
    mrCanoehead

    mrCanoehead Well-Known Member

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    Could you please also publish the thermal and optical losses in steady state, for the white and amber models?
     
  10. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:08 PM
    #470
    CBenfell

    CBenfell Function over Form

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    @crashnburn80 Hey I’ve got an off-topic question. Can I wire some 6” KC halogen lights at 100w into my oem fog light circuit on my 2nd Gen? I don’t intend on using them as fog lights, but because of my aftermarket bumper I’m not running any auxiliary lighting at all. Is the oem circuit able to handle 100w halogen lights, or would I have to beef up some components such as wiring or the relay? It would save me a bit of trouble if I could just utilize the fog circuit. Or should I just wire the KC lights independently?

    Edit: Each light has 8.3 amp draw according to KC Lights website. I guess I need to figure out how many amps the stock circuit is rated for?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  11. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM
    #471
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Got some Daylighters or Pro Sports? I’ve been looking at those. In short though, I would not recommend what you propose, the 100w per side is going to be too much for the OEM circuit. I don’t recall if the fogs are fused independently like the headlights, but the voltage drop would be pretty bad leading to poor performance even if the fuse would hold.

    What I would do instead, is connect the power switch lead from the KC harness to an H10 plug, plug it into your OEM fog circuit, then connect the harness to the battery like you would otherwise. That will utilize your OEM switch and fog circuit to activate the KC relay to turn on the lights. If you were running The LED version of the Pro Sport or LED Daylighter your idea would work as they have much less current draw. Although looking for maximum output the halogens perform better according to KC and their specs.
     
  12. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:23 PM
    #472
    CBenfell

    CBenfell Function over Form

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    Darn. I am considering this because I don’t have the harness. I am getting them used.
     
  13. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM
    #473
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure KC sells replacement harnesses, and there’s plenty pre-made harnesses on Amazon, at Rallylights, etc. I can’t speak to quality as it hasn’t arrived yet but I purchased a MICtuning 12ga harness for dual lights for $18 on Amazon. You’ll likely need to make some modifications but it’s a good place to start.

    MICTUNING HD+ 12 Gauge 600W LED Light Bar Wiring Harness Kit w/ 60Amp Relay, 3 Free Fuse, Rocker Switch Blue(2 Lead) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVWH5W4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_vvjbCbE21DHG0
     
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  14. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:33 PM
    #474
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Your 05 fogs are 42w, so going to 100w is pretty extreme. You can always build a harness or buy a generic one and adapt it to work. KC may be able to sell just the harness as well. @Taylor@KC HiLiTES may be able to hook you up with what you need.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  15. Dec 2, 2018 at 6:41 PM
    #475
    CBenfell

    CBenfell Function over Form

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    I think I will find a generic harness, I need it quick. I am not “electrically inclined” as you can see.

    But what you suggest is using the harness: leads go to power, to ground, to the light fixtures as normal from the relay. But instead of sending 2 leads to an included switch, just wire them to the - and + of the oem fog light plug. That will make my fog light button activate the KC relay? But this is safer because power is running through the heavy duty harness. The only place the oem circuit is used is to trigger the relay, turning the lights on. And that is safe?
     
  16. Dec 2, 2018 at 7:13 PM
    #476
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Correct.

    There will be 2 activation leads (+-) to the relay to activate it, which should go to the switch. It is the activation leads from the relay that you want to adapt to the H10 plug and plug into the OEM fog circuit. When you click the fog light button in the cab, fog circuit is powered and flips the relay. It is safe, and the same way both my fogs and headlights are powered.
     
  17. Dec 2, 2018 at 8:28 PM
    #477
    CBenfell

    CBenfell Function over Form

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    Thank you for the help friends!
     
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  18. Dec 3, 2018 at 7:28 AM
    #478
    Taylor@KC HiLiTES

    Taylor@KC HiLiTES Well-Known Member Vendor

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    We do sell the harness separately which is found here --> http://www.kchilites.com/accessories/wiring/relay-wiring-harness-kc-6315.html


    On the wiring note, I think I am following along with @crashnburn80 . My understanding is that on the diagram below, the green activation lead (normally goes to switch) would just be modified to connect into the stock fog circuit. You'd also have to include the black as well, right? Clever way of going about that, I'd never considered that as a possibility. I am no electrical guru, but I know enough and I like that solution.



    upload_2018-12-3_8-25-1.jpg
     
  19. Dec 3, 2018 at 11:03 AM
    #479
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    That is correct.

    In the diagram cut off the black and green wire ends where they connect to a switch, purchase an H10 plug like this and wire the positive (green) to the red wire and negative (black) to black. Then plug it into the OEM foglight plug. The white wire is not used since the fog circuit already has power. Using the incab fog switch, powers the fog circuit, which flips the relay providing direct power to your lights with a dedicated circuit capable of handling the 200w power draw.

    Clean and factory like on the inside, while wired correctly for high power under the hood.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  20. Dec 6, 2018 at 5:16 AM
    #480
    Bannerman

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    KC Ambers came in a couple days ago and I put them in last night. Install was simple, took maybe half hour but 10 min of that was looking for my short Philips screwdriver. Initial impressions: wish there was a little bit more light but I do understand you can't expect that much intensity from the more limited color temp. Build quality of housings seems inline with the price though I will be watching to see how well the wiring harness/pigtail holds up, just jacketed wire with shrink tube on it, not sure that's going to last 23 years. I really dig how well the color matches up with the DRLs. Will need to find some time to aim them a little better, now sure exactly how high or low they are supposed to be, maybe one of you guys can chime in there? I really like how they look when the they are off, its subtle but they look better than stock, need to do the BHLM to match. We potentially have some snow coming this weekend so I may be able to test them in inclement weather, though I'm in NC so we never get what they predict. Overall I will be happy with them IF they hold up long term.

    IMG_8092.jpg
    IMG_8093.jpg
    IMG_8096.jpg
    IMG_8095.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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