The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Are the bottom emitters the same HX Boost chips from the Max?

For the selectable combo/driving laser pods, will the switch controlling them required to be either/or? Or is there a logic hierarchy on the PCB that will default to high beam boost if that wire is energized?

Meaning - can I only use a single 5-pin relay to control the pods, or could I use two 4-pin relays without overloading?

 

Yes, they are driven at higher power than the SS3 max though. The SS3 Max chips are underdriven because they become thermally limited when trying to run all 4 at a time. With just two LEDs along with the lasers, the LEDs can be driven higher.

For the fog, we decided to keep installation simple, so there is only one operating mode - SAE Fog. For the other models, there is some logic involved. The "primary" operating mode is the combined LED/laser output, generating a combo or a driving pattern. If both input wires are powered, the secondary HBB function will "take over" to only shine the lasers at full blast.

 

What would it take to MAX the MAX such that they were not thermally limited? Active cooling?

 

That or an increase in size like what baja did with the xl80 vs the regular squadron. Bigger = more surface area which = more cooling potential

 

Hm, I'm going to Fairbanks in December... Would be neat if they could modify draw based on ambient temperature.

 

Whens the laser stuff going to hit the website?

 

Probably later this year, but I can't say for sure. Everything is in tooling now, but the lenses require some absolutely insane tolerances in order to properly focus the laser. We want to be sure everything is on track before we start taking orders. It may take a few rounds of slight tweaks on the mold to get everything right, which can take a couple weeks each time.

Thanks,
Paul

 

Any chance you could just throw up all the details on em?

 

Happy to answer questions as possible, but the final output specs will be based on the quality (and focus) of the final lens. If we are off by 0.01mm it could decrease by 10%, so I don't want to overpromise. We will likely be aiming/aligning each pod's optic before shipment, for example.

That said, we are currently shooting for over 500,000 candela from the HBB function. For reference, the 3-inch pod with the highest throw on the market is the SS3 Max Spot, which shines 251,000 candela. The other laser pod on the market right now only provides 95,000 candela.

I can't disclose the exact fog output yet, but by shaping the focused laser, you can imagine that the resulting intensity is quite high.

Power will be around 40 watts stable operation.

The connector is red because it looks cool.

They still have a neat amber backlight.

Hmm, what else...

 

@Diode Dynamics what is the rated life span of your laser chips? I know BD's are 2000 hours. Do they drop in output as they age?

Are the laser chips replaceable so as to not waste the LED chips if the laser life span is significantly less?

 

What sizes or shape will they be available in?

 

After seeing the product execution in the Diode Dynamics Elite, I look forward to seeing what this new lamp can bring to the table, as this looks to have a similar pattern style of very high output intensity at the top with a gradient to lower intensity at the bottom while maintaining a very wide bream pattern. The 1st Gen Rigid 360 Series attempted to do this with a 2 stage gradient, but execution and performance just wasn't on par.

Fogs are easily one of the most misused lights unfortunately. They should never be casually used, despite so many people doing so and incorrectly believing more light is better without understanding the difference in light placement between foreground and distance. As someone who in the winter has regularly traversed winding remote mountain passes in the PNW in near white out conditions at night where conditions can be so bad the roadway cannot be identified, anything LED starts to fail from snowpack, and where the headlights also prove useless, there is literally no such thing as overkill in a fog. It is the last line of visual defense. I realize it sounds extreme, but no LED manufactures are based where these are the real world conditions some of us face. So please, bring all the snow boiling overkill.

 

Really good question. LED lifespan claims are a little confusing. All LEDs, and laser diodes, will reduce output over time as they are used. This is known as "lumen maintenance." It's not too different than a halogen bulb, it just takes a lot longer. If an LED is rated for 2000 hours, the fine print will say that's how long it will last "with 90% original output" for example.

The rate of deterioration is all based on how hot you run a chip, both in terms of current level and the resulting temperature. A tiny red indicator LED can easily last 100,000 hours... again, similar to how the "longest operating bulb in the world" is super, super low power and dim. The harder you run a chip, the faster it will deteriorate. Here is an example of a lumen maintenance graph showing output deterioration over time. "L70" indicates the total hours until the source reaches 70% of original output.




This type of performance data is very important in applications like street lights, being used 10+ hours a day, every day. Within the automotive world, there are tests and standards for lumen maintenance as well, with the top areas of concerns being DRLs. Basically, you age-test the lamp, and test to see whether light output has deteriorated beyond acceptable standards. We have an age-test shelf set up for this purpose, and some lamps have been on there for years now.

All that said, the listed hour limit on the laser chips is not a "hard stop" by any means, and even 70% output is a great deal of light. It will vary based on the operating environment, or how hot the chips are running. We are happy with the expected lifespan given the operating temperature of our design. At the end of the day, any company offering a warranty for more than a few years on automotive lights is gambling that they will not be used for multiple hours every single day. Keep in mind that other components on the setup like capacitors will probably fail sooner than the LEDs though. That's probably why, for good reason, Baja Designs has stipulations in their warranty for "commercial use," or applications where the lights are indeed going to be used for multiple hours every day.

SS3 Max Laser SAE Fog will be available in standard, round, and angled bezels.
SS3 Max Laser Combo/HBB and Driving/HBB will only be available in standard bezels.
SSC1 in standard configuration with a single laser chip, only in spot. Intention would be to supplement an existing setup with this.
SS5 in Driving/HBB and Combo/HBB.
I believe they will all be offered with an amber backlight only.

Thanks!
Paul

 

Just to verify, the laser driving patterns will not be J581 compliant correct? Even if the "low-beam" pattern was compliant, would the boost function would make the lamp ineligible anyway? I thought I read somewhere that no "dual function" lights can be compliant if the brighter function exceeds the allowable intensity.

If that is the case, the SS3 driving pros are still the most performant J581 compliant lamps from DD.

 

We don't expect the "Driving/HBB" to be J581 compliant due to the intensity level. We thought about shifting the pattern around the center test point to make it compliant, but that kinda defeats the point of the laser.

In terms of combining compliant and non-compliant lighting functions in a single lamp, I know that's the general understanding for a lot of manufacturers but I don't know whether that's an actual rule. OEMs are really pushing the boundaries on all kinds of things.... I have no idea how the VW Golf isn't considered to have 10 fog lights, for example... so honestly, unless someone can point me to the regulation, I'm not too concerned with combining functions (aside from third brake lights where it is defined). All that said, we're not trying to do that yet. KC's new Flex Era product does combine on- and off-road functions, just to point that out.

 

J581 has E-max, it doesn't matter where to place peak position, it limits at 75,000Cd
if UB2, then you can just avoid HV 75,000Cd limit, and place peak at elsewhere. That's ok. But UB2 has more width requirement

Having offroad function integrated, as long as offroad feature is controlled by momentary switch (= every time turn system/car off, offroad function must turn off), it is generally accepted

 

Effects such as CRI and DUV can also affect the "feel" of the light. Two lights of the same color temp but one above the blackbody curve and one below the blackbody curve will look different.

If you see cheap LEDs you may notice a sickly greenish tint, to the same end others can have a redish/rose like hue, this is DUV off the BBL.

CRI, color rendering index, is another attribute. If the CRI is high the reds and yellows of objects being lit may appear more giving the feel of a warmer color temp.

(and I have henceforth exhausted my knowledge of the DUV subject...)

eih, sorry, didn't realize I was pages behind...

 

I don't agree with that - I'm looking at the 2011 standard again right now, and the maximum limitation is clearly is at HV. Can you explain where you are seeing that?

I appreciate your input, but I don't think that either of us are qualified to provide authoritative guidance on this based simply on our observations. I am sure that the fulltime homologation engineers at the OEs could provide more qualified answers if asked.

 

E-max= anywhere in beam
UB2, it can have higher peak as long as it's not at HV, many OE high beam take advantage of this.
Evaluation data updated each software update

Look UB2 table for reference, for those which Table does not have E-max, it shows --

Advise about off-road function integration, it's advise from one of NHTSA/DOT exclusive evaluator lab engineer. His advise was "generally OK, as long as it is paired with momentary switch."

 

I am looking at the actual SAE standard, not the templates in software.

Paul