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the twilight zone

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by sushidub, Jun 5, 2023.

  1. Jun 6, 2023 at 5:59 AM
    #21
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    This is like a Steven King junk yard nightmare......

    So......assuming the fuse box is wired correctly and no shorts, or severed wires....

    When you bump the starter, it throws/powers the starter relay, and at the same time sends juice down to the blower motor....

    So you have 7.5a circuit throwing the start relay and powering the 40a blower motor circuit....
    and your not switching the blower on.....your powering the whole dang motor.....wow....

    Next chapter...

    So now when we power the blower motor thru the dash controls.....not only do you throw the switch to the blower motor...
    but now we suck some of that 40a circuit and back feed it into the starter relay energizer/signal side......wow wow

    And that feed must be a significant reduction in voltage for it not to constantly kick the starter relay back on....
    so burning the starter relay out.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
    sushidub[OP] likes this.
  2. Jun 6, 2023 at 6:27 AM
    #22
    b_r_o

    b_r_o Gnar doggy

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    Those are relays not fuses. Did you remove that copper wire? That's probably part, if not all of the problem
     
  3. Jun 6, 2023 at 8:02 AM
    #23
    1 Limited Toyota

    1 Limited Toyota ISO XRunner body kit complete or pieces

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    slowly erasing past owner hacks
    The battery condition (low voltage) can cause the starter solenoid to arc and weld temporarily. Ive seen it several times. How it may have engaged on its own ... maybe ???
     
    sushidub[OP] likes this.
  4. Jun 6, 2023 at 1:13 PM
    #24
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    In all seriousness ....you're gonna have to go over everything....

    they didnt do that for fun......there's gonna be more....

    If you ever wanted to know where every wire goes and what it does from the fuse box on...
    well this is your lucky day....

    If you're not a good DIY, it may be time to have an expert look at it...

    At the very least your gonna have to have a power probe of some sort....
    and maybe a signal tracer.....

    My guess is a bad ground or short somewhere they couldnt find....
    so this was their solution....to start the truck that day....


    and then maybe got rid of it soon after....


    There was a time when those trucks werent worth so much......
    ......now times are different.....worth fixing right now.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  5. Jun 6, 2023 at 1:20 PM
    #25
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    First thing I'd consider, is restaking all fuses on the truck...
    making sure they all have a fresh solid contact...

    same with all grounds on the truck....get some de-ox spray and re-snug everything.

    Most likely gonna have to pull all fuse boxes.....and give each wire going into the back of them the evil eye.....


    Very fortunate for how simple these trucks truly are....
    if it was something made in the last ten years...you may on been screwed....
     
    Abeyancer and sushidub[OP] like this.
  6. Jun 6, 2023 at 1:58 PM
    #26
    KdF

    KdF Old Rednek Type

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    That wire does not belong. And it surprises me it's bare. No telling how long it's been like that. If you don't know electronics, it's a expensive proposition to take it in.
     
    sushidub[OP] likes this.
  7. Jun 6, 2023 at 1:59 PM
    #27
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    And dont be like one of the other members here couple days ago....

    he thinks he accidently sent 12v down a 5v reference wire going into the ecm....
    he thinks he fried his $750 replacement ecm......ouch....

    And I'm like Bivouac....wish I had the truck in front of me...

    it would be like a fox hunt........the fun....the mysteries...


    I just got though doing my 10K maintenance and had all kinds of crap wrong with mine...
    pulley mounts hanging off, unstaked inter tie rod unscrewing...sparkles in front bearing grease....blown out boots...ect...

    So yeah ...I need a fix.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
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  8. Jun 6, 2023 at 3:09 PM
    #28
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    I left it in for now. I'm going to hook the battery back up in a few minutes and if the truck tries to start when I do, I'll disconnect the battery again, remove the strange copper wire and try again. Either I will be reporting back the results or Rod Serling will on my behalf.
     
    lynyrd3 likes this.
  9. Jun 6, 2023 at 3:55 PM
    #29
    Aircates

    Aircates Well-Known Member

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    I highly recommend that you pull out that bare copper wire. That explains this whole issue. I would really like to know why it is there.
     
  10. Jun 6, 2023 at 4:49 PM
    #30
    b_r_o

    b_r_o Gnar doggy

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    I'll bet somebody put that wire in there trying to steal it the other night
     
  11. Jun 6, 2023 at 5:08 PM
    #31
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    There's ways faster and easier to steal these......
    .......these are like the ones you see em hot wire in the old movies....

    and all those toyota start switches are pretty much the same......outer case differs a little depending on what car its used in....
    beck/anrnly generic ones like $15.....key to the 90's and mid 2000's toyota nation.....and of course you'll need a screwdriver or a key blank....to turn the switch....

    20 seconds on my back under your dash......I can take you toyota...wouldnt have to cut a single wire, or break anything....
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  12. Jun 6, 2023 at 5:57 PM
    #32
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    I would love to know why it's there as well.
    I only left it in for this evenings test run (reconnecting the battery). Honestly, I thought the wire being there would be unrelated. Not to cast doubt, but I lack the electrical knowledge chops to know how it being there would even give the truck the potential to turn over.
     
  13. Jun 6, 2023 at 5:58 PM
    #33
    b_r_o

    b_r_o Gnar doggy

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    Somebody jumped power from the heater relay circuit over to the starter circuit

    For some reason
     
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  14. Jun 6, 2023 at 6:04 PM
    #34
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    When I went to look outside that night, I deliberately scouted the peripheral around my house just to make sure somebody wasn't running off. The hood was shut tight, as normal. The steering bar lock is clearly visible from outside looking in (even from a distance as it uses the top of the dashboard to block the wheel from turning). Seems like a waste of time to even bother with meticulous wiring once I see the steering locker.
     
  15. Jun 6, 2023 at 6:10 PM
    #35
    b_r_o

    b_r_o Gnar doggy

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    It got installed at some point to feed power from the one circuit to the other, or vice versa. Like it wasn't starting so he tried to jump power to the starter.. or the fan blower stopped working so he tried to jump power to it from somewhere else. Who knows, judging by the crappy exposed wiring attempt he was likely a moron with no idea what he was doing.

    You really don't have any choice but to pull it out and see what's up. If it starts, great. If it doesn't we can help you figure it out. Check the fan blower controls too and see if they're working also

    Bottom line, it's not stock. Remove it and report back
     
    sushidub[QUOTED][OP] and lynyrd3 like this.
  16. Jun 6, 2023 at 6:39 PM
    #36
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    Wouldn't the heater relay circuit only receive power once the ignition was put in ACC mode (the key moving one click over from off)? I get what you're saying now. Yea, def feasible somebody may have done it for those reasons and forgot about it a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  17. Jun 6, 2023 at 7:02 PM
    #37
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    UPDATE --

    So I reconnected the battery this evening with fear and trepidation lurking on the shoulder. With the keys out of the ignition, tightening up the negative terminal, nothing happened. I was expecting to hear the truck try and repeatedly turn over on its own like it did the other night. Hmm. This could be good as long as the battery itself isn't dead (from trying to crank the truck up non-stop). Insert key into ignition and ...ding ding ding! We have a winner folks. 'your door is open' cabbie bells sound off. Turn the key over a notch - ACC mode. Blower kicks in. Notch over one more - the dash lights up. On the final notch the truck turns over to engage the starter, which does what its supposed to do on the first try. Engine fires up like nothing ever happened. I roll the ignition switch back to off. Engine shuts down and then, nothing happens. Just the 'door is open' chime. Great. I cycled thru the same routine a few times and think how grateful I am but still f'n puzzled to what really happened.

    Some of you suggested that weird jumper wire connecting the starter / heater relays (see pics) might have something to do with the TZ strangeness. Had me curious too. So I removed the wire from the relay box entirely and tested turning over half expecting everything to be the same. Although it wasn't. Rolling through the ignition modes, electrical was normal and respected which mode the key was in - only up until crank mode where we'd expect the starter to engage. With the wire removed the starter does not receive juice at all. No clickings no nothing. Reconnecting the wire (as shown in the pics) - the starter engages right when it should and truck starts up fine. Everything's reads nominal sir. So weird that wire.

    Regardless - I'm grateful for what it is at the moment since I was afraid of losing my shirt on this thing. The truck is parked quietly (for now) with the battery connected, so we'll see what happens overnight. Which now makes me think I might just skip out on watching 'that show' tonight.

    I'm def going to be replacing all the deteriorated wheel well flaps and inspecting the wiring harness hopefully before this (ever) happens again.

    Gotta say thanks to you jokers - at the least for some good wisecracks. :annoyed:

     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  18. Jun 6, 2023 at 7:55 PM
    #38
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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  19. Jun 6, 2023 at 8:00 PM
    #39
    Bivouac

    Bivouac Well-Known Member

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    Remains to be seen I bought the tires and wheels the rest came along
    It can not crank without the starter relay being installed and the rest of the starter circuit being correct.

    your blower motor will not work either.

    some place the starter circuit got energized.

    @Tacocritter If you can get it cheap enough we can figure this mess out.
     
  20. Jun 6, 2023 at 8:06 PM
    #40
    sushidub

    sushidub [OP] Member

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    Haha - with only 140K she won't come cheap.
     

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