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The ultimate foglight upgrade H11 (not LED or HID)

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by crashnburn80, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. Nov 8, 2019 at 11:37 PM
    #561
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Do you have a picture of your setup? Many aftermarket lights come with universal adjustable mounts.
     
  2. Nov 8, 2019 at 11:49 PM
    #562
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Apparently I've missed several posts in this thread.

    Heat should not be an issue. I've thought about testing those in the past but never did, but they should give you a modest bump in output. I don't recall what the OEM fog fuse is, but those would pull 6.25A each. Double check the fog circuit but I think it may be a combined 15A for the circuit. I do have a spare used fog harness for higher output, but it shouldn't be required.
     
  3. Nov 9, 2019 at 1:42 AM
    #563
    robe0455

    robe0455 Member

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    I'll be under the truck in a couple of days so will take a pic then, but these a direct replacement LED option that is available here in Aus:

    STEDI Universal LED Fog Type C Suits TJM and Rhino 4x4 bars
     
  4. Nov 9, 2019 at 2:00 AM
    #564
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    That is a basic Morimoto style unit. It produces a very thin wide pattern and actually less light output than stock, but it is focused in a much smaller region so the intensity doesn't drop as bad as the raw numbers make it seem. But you will lose pattern area coverage.

    Good news is if you use those OEM part numbers in your link, they translate to the OEM Toyota fog. You'd need to do a little research but all the fogs that use an OEM Toyota mount I'd suspect will work from this thread below. You can also get a very similar looking OEM Toyota LED fogs by Valeo for inexpensive that perform better than the aftermarket Morimoto units.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

    The KC G4 fogs and the Rigid 360 Series will provide the best area coverage. KC offers a direct Toyota mount solution, while Rigid 360s are launching a separate Toyota mount this month. Baja I mentioned earlier also sells a separate direct Toyota mount. Both Rigid 360 and Baja Squadrons are available in driving style lights compatible with the Toyota mounts.

    Double check your part numbers, but if you use the fogs you linked to, I think you have lots of options.
     
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  5. Nov 11, 2019 at 7:12 PM
    #565
    TK11

    TK11 Well-Known Member

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    Loving all the science in this thread, but here's a simple question: If I want to try out yellow fog lights simply for the sake of seeing if I like the color, is this an appropriate bulb? Simple H11 yellow.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079ZBWVSF/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2EJCTH67GJMT3&psc=1
    At this point I'm not interested in changing the beam pattern, brightness, etc, so don't want to invest in other technologies.
     
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  6. Nov 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM
    #566
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    If wanting to try yellow, I’d look for a fully coated bulb like Nokya Hyper Yellow 2500k for darker yellow or Hella Xtreme Yellow 2900k for lighter yellow. Note Hella, and not Optilux by Hella.
     
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  7. Nov 11, 2019 at 8:09 PM
    #567
    TK11

    TK11 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the input!
     
  8. Nov 12, 2019 at 6:23 PM
    #568
    robe0455

    robe0455 Member

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    Thanks for all of your work with this Crash. Here is a photo from the front and back of my current assembly.

    A1C7101F-BCBD-451E-85B8-DB3E77F37210.jpg 25C85CD6-5D61-4335-A63A-A72CF52FC256.jpg

    I can find the genuine Toyota halogen and LED units easily enough. How would the LED compare to the halogen with the fog light upgrade as depicted in this thread?

    Thanks again,
    Mark
     
  9. Nov 12, 2019 at 10:00 PM
    #569
    Norton

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  10. Nov 12, 2019 at 10:07 PM
    #570
    robe0455

    robe0455 Member

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    Sorry, I should rephrase. Given the option of the Genuine Toyota 'Valeo' LED replacement fog lamp, or a Genuine Toyota halogen fog lamp with the upgraded wiring, which will provide better lighting performance?

    The method of testing lux seems to have changed between the threads. The OEM LED option has 192.7 lux vs a recorded 475 lux for the headlight upgrade. Even the stock setup had 237 lux so I'm not sure that the two methodologies can be compared side-by-side.
     
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  11. Nov 12, 2019 at 10:59 PM
    #571
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Good catch on the lux numbers! The numbers between this fog thread are not compatible to the others. Here I did a very short primitive test. Later on I moved to standardize all my tests in an indoor range at 18' to improve the test quality. The headlight thread and SAE LED fog thread contain 18' numbers in the comparison charts.

    Better lighting performance depends. The LED fogs will do a significantly better job of glare control. The stock fogs do not control glare well, so boosting halogen output also boosts glare. The halogen 'wide angle' fogs give a wider angle of projection than the LED fogs. Toyota Valeo LED units produce a very short pattern, so total area coverage will likely decrease, but with the smaller area you can increase the light intensity in that smaller zone. The OEM fogs cover a very large area, they put out more light than the LEDs but it is spread over a larger wider area, so the intensity is lower. Massive boosts to output with the mod increase the near area lighting significantly, and provide improved side illumination, but due to the wide area spread may not match the targeted intensity of the LED units. Rigids new LED 360 line does offer a reasonably wide and tall angles on fog light output.

    Generally speaking, I recommend the SAE LED options, specifically Rigids in selective yellow, for those that may need to use them on the street with oncoming traffic. I've had a lot of guys message me and say the ultimate fogs were invaluable in wide area coverage on forest service roads where they are looking for the broader area coverage, or in extreme snow environments where they need the heat to prevent ice over.
     
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  12. Nov 13, 2019 at 3:22 AM
    #572
    robe0455

    robe0455 Member

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    Some really good info there! I have found that the Genuine Toyota fogs available here appear to be quite different to the Valeo units that you get in the States, and more in line with the Lexus Japanese made units that you tested at some point. Here are a couple of pics:

    Screen Shot 2019-11-13 at 8.50.19 pm.jpg


    Screen Shot 2019-11-13 at 8.50.26 pm.jpg


    Screen Shot 2019-11-13 at 8.50.33 pm.jpg
     
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  13. Dec 2, 2019 at 1:08 AM
    #573
    Colinator4321

    Colinator4321 Well-Known Member

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    I realize that most people who have gotten this far in the thread will understand by now why you wanna stick with halogens in a halogen designed lens. Non the less, I thought I'd add a few pics here.

    I recently bought a 2012 Tacoma, and one of the previous owners had done a full HID swap, and installed aftermarket headlights. (Anzo U-bar black: http://www.anzousa.com/toyota-tacoma-12-14-projector-u-bar-style-headlights-black-clear-amber.html).

    After purchase, We drove partially through the night (6 hour drive, arrived home around 2am), some of which I was behind my dad in our other vehicle, following him down the highway. We quickly found out that the wiring in the headlights was wack, and they didn't work (Passenger side dull, later found driverside had no bulb), so my dad was forced to drive home primarily by the light emitted by the fog lights. As we went under bridges, I noticed that he was lighting the underside of the bridge as he approached them.

    Needless to say, I pretty much immediately started work on fixing the lights. I swapped out the HID's for Halogens in both headlights and fog lights.

    While I don't have pictures of the headlights, here's some comparison pictures of uncapped HID's vs capped Halogen bulbs in the fog lights.






    The new bulbs provide far less glare, while still offering ample light. I replaced the HID's with Sylvania silverstar Ultras


    Pls excuse the low quality of image from my phone
     
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  14. Dec 2, 2019 at 12:41 PM
    #574
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    Wow, those HID fogs are absolutely awful! BTW, thanks for sharing the pics too!

    As for the Silverstar Ultras, Although they're no doubt better than the HID's, check out the Ultimate Headlight Upgrade and if you don't want to go the full ultimate route, check out some of the bulbs crashnburn80 recommends. Trust me, they're better than the Silverstars.
     
  15. Dec 2, 2019 at 2:40 PM
    #575
    150k

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    The Silverstars, by Sylvania's own admission in their own patent filings, is a steaming pile of crap. So bad that Sylvania literally says they can't guarantee that your headlamp would pass minimum legal requirements with a $50 dollar set of Silverstar bulbs installed.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a diagram that Sylvania provided to illustrate how poorly the Silverstar that is sold today performs. "9005 SU" = 9005 Silverstar Ultra = the bulb you find at AutoZone/O'Reilly/Advanced/NAPA/Wal-Mart. The "2.5mm below/above" indicate prototype bulbs with partial blue tints that are shifted relative to the filament. As you can see, the bulbs with only one stripe of blue tint versus two stripes perform better.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Dec 2, 2019 at 2:41 PM
    #576
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but at least they don't last very long either.
     
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  17. Dec 2, 2019 at 3:46 PM
    #577
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    HIDs in the fogs is one of the worst possible 'lighting mods' possible, as the OEM fogs have not glare cap and poor cut offs leading to massive uncontrolled light output resulting in dangerous levels of glare for other motorists. Nice job recognizing that and getting them out of there. Unfortunately the aftermarket assemblies will have poor performance, you may want to consider swapping them back to OEM and checking out this lighting upgrade: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-headlight-upgrade-h4-not-led-or-hid.398066/

    As for bulbs, the best performing stock wattage H11 is the GE Xenon +120. This is tested in 3rd Gen headlights, so ignore the H9 entries for the fog application, but you can see some H11 data here:




    Welcome to the forum! Yes, Sylvania Silverstars (different than Osram Silverstars) are not the performance product they are marketed as, and are not an upgrade over stock. However many people are misled by the whiter light output and don't realize the output has been reduced because of it. I've sent a light meter to someone who was convinced silverstars were an upgrade. After measuring the output and comparing to another bulb, they came back and said something must be wrong because the silverstar lux values were so low. Needless to say they stopped running silverstars.
     
  18. Dec 2, 2019 at 5:38 PM
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    Where can I find that thread/post?

    If only they knew that Osram-Sylvania itself said that Silverstars can't be guaranteed to help your headlamps meet minimum specs!
     
  19. Dec 2, 2019 at 10:41 PM
    #579
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Was via PM, not a public post. Though I have thought about doing a measured data backed thread on why these blue coated bulb products are a poor idea, but it is pretty low on the priority list. I've pinged the member here if they care to share their experience.
     
  20. Dec 3, 2019 at 3:53 AM
    #580
    Colinator4321

    Colinator4321 Well-Known Member

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    I've got to say, I'm surprised that that the general consensus is that the Silverstars actually aren't that great. Currently i'm driving a borrowed '99 Ford Windstar minivan and I put ultras in those headlights thinking they were good. They seem to do the job, tho I suppose what iv'e noticed is that they light a ways down the road, but the road that's lit doesn't actually provide much clarity. And visibility in rain is non existent (no fog lights).

    And I just convinced my dad to buy ultras for his vehicle too..:facepalm::annoyed:

    At least he hasn't installed them yet.



    Regarding the Ultimate Fog and Headlight mods, those are certainly on my to do list, but right now my priority is just getting the truck operational. Considering the alternative (driving a minivan all winter), I think it's best to just focus on that first, then come summer I can look into mods.

    I have to admit tho, those write ups sure make my head spin

    If my housings had to be replaced, I was gonna replace them with TRD PRO fixtures, but they seem to work for now, and I like the idea of saving $400 right now. Well, I should say, they WORKED for a bit. After I reinstalled them with proper halogen bulbs (H9, not H4 like stock) everything looked great. Then the next day I had a look, and now the high beam on the passenger side wont shut off. Gonna see if reconnecting a few wires fixes that.

    But besides that, they do look to have a proper cutoff to them, and seem to provide sufficient light for now.

    The Ultras are only in my fog lights, and I figure I can hold off on swapping them out for a bit. Plus, working on a truck in freezing temps without a heated garage is over rated anyways. Plastic clips are just more brittle, hands go numb, every tool you pick up is frozen, and the concrete slap is miserable to lie on.


    Tho I will say, I am slightly confused as to how those recommended lights are better than HID's???

    I mean, I thought "HID" was another name for "xenon", or the has used in those bulbs. Yet the bulbs you recommend advertise as using xenon gas in them???


    At the end of the day, this is my personal first vehicle that I actually own. And I drained myself buying it outright. Not only that, but I have currently spent more time under my truck, than actually in the driver seat, and i'm getting a little impatient. My main goal right now, is just to get the truck running. Then I can insure and register it, and finally learn to drive it. (New to manual)

    Also, i'm gonna need to buy a set winters for the truck so that's squeezing me a little tighter.:spending:

    And on top of that, i'm trying to diagnose whether or not my truck has some sort a fluid leak under neath. If so, then it seems it may be coming from the front diff gasket
     

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