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The ultimate headlight upgrade H4 (not LED or HID)

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by crashnburn80, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. Jun 3, 2019 at 7:32 AM
    #2141
    Norton

    Norton Senior Member

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    Great info, as always! Thanks for spending the time to collect and analyze it!

    I'm intrigued by three data points, in particular... The Osram 85/80W All Season produces more light (1977lx) than the Osram 100/90W (1731lx), despite not holding a "Hyper" designation. Even more surprising, though, are their respective Color Temps - 3288K for the Osram 85/80W vs 3277K for the Osram 100/90W. Finally, the fact that they all draw the same (6.3A) current.
    Osram 85/80W Hypers were discontinued, but I thought Osram 85/80W All Seasons were still available? Confused and disappointed by Osram's decision, if they're discontinued as well.
     
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  2. Jun 3, 2019 at 12:54 PM
    #2142
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The 85/80w All Seasons were Hyper bulbs, just with the addition of the refractive coating. The entire Hyper product line was discontinued and the non-coated bulbs were depleted rapidly, the All Season bulbs were not as popular so they lingered around a while longer. Now they are pretty hard to come by. All Seasons work by refracting the very low end of the spectrum out of the light pattern to make the light more yellow, meaning that ~3% loss is effectively 3% turned into increased scatter/glare, so they are not the most ideal. Someone in this thread came up with a way to remove the coating though that may adversely affect the life of the bulbs.

    Color temp is a funny thing, while the temps 3288 vs 3277 look similar on paper the color of the All Season is more yellow looking than the temp numbers would imply. I really need the ability to plot chromaticity charts to show it better.

    The lights were tested at 13.8v, so the 6.3A puts them at about 87w. So the Hypers come in a little more than advertised and the 90/100s a little less.
     
    Codeka, jet123 and Norton[QUOTED] like this.
  3. Jun 3, 2019 at 5:04 PM
    #2143
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    For a really interesting headlight comparison! 3rd Gen owners often mention the headlights are not that great. Larger reflectors are more efficient and performant than smaller ones and ultimately a projector still has an internal reflector, as far as reflectors go the 2nd Gen reflectors are pretty massive. Now that I have run both Gens through the same series of standardized tests, I have directly comparable data.

    Here is my 3rd Gen data. I have the 3rd Gen in 2 charts due to the LEDs and HIDs being involved in the first one. The HIDs used in this first chart are Xenon Depot house brand bulbs, and their rebased H11 HID Philips bulbs.

    [​IMG]

    More 3rd Gen halogen data:

    [​IMG]

    Compared to the 2nd Gen halogen data:

    [​IMG]

    Some interesting points:
    • Stock 2nd Gen headlights are about 56% higher lux than stock 3rd Gen headlights.
    • A stock wattage Philips +150 bulb in 2nd Gen comes in at higher lux than the XD HIDs in 3rd Gen headlights.
    • Osram Hypers put out nearly as much lux as the Philips HIDs... at 13.8v. The higher wattage bulbs measurements do not have added voltage to account for running a standalone harness which boosts output. And if you are running an AGM with a voltage booster, as covered here, results will be even higher. Meaning that the original Ultimate Headlight Upgrade with the voltage booster is actually higher in lux output than HIDs in a 3rd Gen halogen projector. Correctly using HIDs in a proper HID projector would produce better results than HIDs in a halogen projector. But still fun comparison data nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  4. Jun 3, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #2144
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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  5. Jun 3, 2019 at 6:46 PM
    #2145
    FastEddy59

    FastEddy59 TTC #0061

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    Thanks for shedding some light on it. Makes for illuminating discussion. :)
     
  6. Jun 3, 2019 at 7:08 PM
    #2146
    Pyrotech

    Pyrotech Well-Known Member

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    Yes a shining star in the dark
     
  7. Jun 3, 2019 at 7:18 PM
    #2147
    FastEddy59

    FastEddy59 TTC #0061

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    Yeah, “Lighthouses don’t go running around an island trying to save boats. They just stand there ‘n Shine. :cheers:
     
    crashnburn80[OP] likes this.
  8. Jun 3, 2019 at 7:59 PM
    #2148
    TxStVanWilder

    TxStVanWilder The Pale Horse

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    I know ive seen this before some place in the thread.. tried searching before posting... Go ahead and hate on me im prepared to take it, but i would like to purchase some lights before i take a road trip next week. So it would be without the harness and would prefer a coated light.... I know i know, dont do coated, but i like the look (inb4ricer). I just snagged some KC Hilites g4 with the clear lens and would like them to be closer in color vs the warm white of a regular headlight. This is all until i can snag me the harness and a set of high quality output bulbs. Im trying to find the post with the info on coated bulbs if anyone has or knows a post number available.
     
  9. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:07 PM
    #2149
    20somethingwidataco

    20somethingwidataco Yes, my avatar is a real car.

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    I'll still come over and put out more usable light than you any time youd like
     
  10. Jun 3, 2019 at 10:01 PM
    #2150
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Headlights only, no freebies next time on allowing use of headlights plus 4 pod lights and a light bar to try and compete for output.
     
  11. Jun 3, 2019 at 10:11 PM
    #2151
    20somethingwidataco

    20somethingwidataco Yes, my avatar is a real car.

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    Easy. Mines not even the highest outputting retrofit set.
     
  12. Jun 4, 2019 at 4:07 PM
    #2152
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The KC G4s are 5000k. A Halogen runs between in the low-mid 3000k range. The only way to get to 5000k will be a very heavy blue coating which will severely hurt performance, far worse than typical Silverstars which are in the low 4000k range.

    If you really wanted a 5000k bulb, look at Philips Diamond Vision for stock wattage:
    https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Diamond-Upgrade-Headlight-12342DVS2/dp/B00EQ3JOC2

    Or Osram Cool Bluo Boost for high wattage (requires a standalone harness):
    https://www.amazon.com/OSRAM-BOOST-...e+boost+H4&qid=1559688955&s=automotive&sr=1-1

    Running a 5000k coating is going to rob much of the output, so using higher wattage would be better for output, but at the same time the coating is going to cause the bulb to run very hot as the blue coating is an absorption filter and filtering the yellow light which is the majority of the spectrum, this compounded by the heat of the high wattage, is going to lead to very short bulb life.

    I would not recommend either of these products. Maybe Silverstars will be close enough in the low 4000k range, though their performance is still poor but won't be as bad as a similar 5000k bulb. Food for thought. I'd suggest going with the Philips Racing Vision, which is the highest performance stock wattage low beam bulb at the highest color temp (3600k) which will help be closer in color temp while providing improved performance. You still will have a 1400k color temp difference though, which will be noticeable however I think headlight performance should trump losses in performance for cosmetic reasons. If that gap is too large, I'd look at a light like Silverstars (though I would not recommend them) to be in the lower 4000k range so you are less than 1000k difference from the KCs which will provide better performance than the 5000k coated bulbs.
     
    TxStVanWilder[QUOTED] likes this.
  13. Jun 4, 2019 at 7:20 PM
    #2153
    TxStVanWilder

    TxStVanWilder The Pale Horse

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    I actually have the Phillips pulled up and saved on my phone, that was going to be the route i go for the time being until i can pony up for the harness and a higher end set.... Hell i went to look at VLEDs switchbacks and about crapped myself with $200 for turn signals/DRL. But anything worth buying usually isnt cheap
     
  14. Jun 5, 2019 at 6:19 AM
    #2154
    TxStVanWilder

    TxStVanWilder The Pale Horse

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    Before I click the buy button, I just want to doublecheck that this is the correct bulbs you were talking about. These are the ones in the link on the first post. 0A714A9C-B6E1-4F3E-A3F4-587C8772F4D7.jpg
     
  15. Jun 5, 2019 at 8:36 AM
    #2155
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Those are the 3600k Racing Vision bulbs I suggested above, yes.
    Edit! Those are not the high wattage ones featured at the top of the first page, though they are mentioned down in the other stock wattage bulbs section on the first page.
     
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  16. Jun 5, 2019 at 10:01 AM
    #2156
    jet123

    jet123 Well-Known Member

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    Those Osram 85/80 All season bulbs are getting scarce. Just ordered a set from China complete with free shipping... sometime in the next 1-2 months:fingerscrossed:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  17. Jun 8, 2019 at 9:03 AM
    #2157
    because_wumbo-truck

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    Got my truck back from the shop yesterday at 5. Tried to drive to work at 930 and the headlights didnt work. :frusty:
     
  18. Jun 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM
    #2158
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Are you running the Rallylights harness? Was it high and low that didn’t work? If it is just low beam, I’d suspect either simultaneous bulb burn out (happens more often than you would think) or a relay failure if using the Hella made in China relays from Rallylights, with money being on the later. You can swap the high/low relays to test.
     
  19. Jun 8, 2019 at 10:09 AM
    #2159
    because_wumbo-truck

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    I have the 100w osrams and the $100+ headlight services harness or what ever it's called. The one made in USA.
    I've only had em installed like 3 weeks.
     
  20. Jun 8, 2019 at 10:39 AM
    #2160
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Both harnesses are made in the USA, Headlight Services (the better harness) uses Bosch European relays, Rallylights uses Hella China ones.

    Things to check:
    1) Does high beam work?
    2) Check the OEM fuses under the hood for the left headlight low beam.
    3) Check the fuse on the harness.
    4) Check the relay, try swapping high and low beam relays.
    5) Check that the harness is still connected to the positive and ground and plugged in, and that the shop didn’t undo one of these things.
    5) Last check the bulbs. Very unlikely both would fail in an extreme short period of time.
     
    Rick_Taco likes this.

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