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Third Break Light - LED Lights Review

Discussion in 'Product Reviews' started by LoadedTaco, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Mar 20, 2013 at 7:57 PM
    #41
    4WD

    4WD cRaZy oLdmAn

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    Grey wire MOD, deck plate, diff breather MOD, 2nd gen. OME 883# on Tundra 5100's, OMD custom 3" leafsprings, rear shock relocation, Ivan Stewart TRD rims w/285/75/16's, '02 bumper MOD, Famous Fabrications sliders , LED interior/exterior lights, bed bar, Custom tube bumper, Old school KC day lighters,Red Ring 8" HID flood, Kenwood vhf 2M.. umm some other shit I'm forgetting right now
    Been running Chris's LED's for about a year, only had 1 issue that HE brought to MY attention, & turned out to be a problem on his then supplier's end. Chris made the drive to my house on his own dime & fitted the replacements at $.00 expense on my part, can't get any better than that, & when I've had a question he responded promptly with accurate info. so great product & service in my book, I don't have the 3rd light LEDs

    but if I decide to get some no doubt I'll go thru Chris....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mar 20, 2013 at 11:32 PM
    #42
    RockNRolla

    RockNRolla Active Member

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    I had the same experience with LED's for my 3rd brake light. Though I did NOT order them from csjumper. I ordered these http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-Red-Led-Light-Dashboard-T10-194-168-Light-Bulb-Lamps-Benz-BMW-Ford-Nissan-/120940487693?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c289d640d#ht_3291wt_1037 x 2. And they are no better then the incandescent bulbs. Not being out more then 4 bucks, I'm not worried. In your case, you did expect the product to be brighter, as illustrated in the sample pictures he provided.
    Not an insult in any way on Chris (csjumper) but replacing your factory incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs is not rocket science here folks. I'm sure Chris has some fine quality LED bulbs. But anyone can do the same with deal's from online retailers/auction sites/etc. Its as simple as bulb number and LED after that in the search field. It takes some trial and error, but I've nearly converted every bulb possible on my truck. With some having reverted back to an OEM style bulb.
    Best of luck OP.
     
  3. Mar 20, 2013 at 11:51 PM
    #43
    AaronArf

    AaronArf Well-Known Member

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    Total Chaos +2 Long Travel. Check the build thread!
    Thanks for the honest, unbiased review. I was considering the third brake light LED's because they do appear to be brighter in the FS thread. I'll pass if they are not brighter. Sometimes when a forum vendor is involved the fan boys come out of the wood works in defense. The product review forums are for positive and negative experiances, Plain and simple. Also for the other LED's you bought that don't fit without modification...well that's not right. He should have accepted your return if you we're not at fault. 30% restocking fee for a "company" that is run out of his house is absolutely ridiculous. He paying tax on his earnings? I assume not. I could see him expecting you to cover return shipping simply because he is doing this as a side deal. Anyways, Customer is always right??

    I do have CSJumpers LED dome, license and map lights. Which I am very pleased with, no issues over the past year. I had a positive experiance with my order but it was a fairly simple one, all true plug and play LED's. His reverse LED's didn't perform to my expectations, I now have them installed in my GF's Honda Civic as trunk lights. (Although it looks like he changed style from when I ordered)

    I've had good luck with a few sellers off ebay, much cheaper with free shipping. Same output as far as dome & map lights. Even had one damaged in shipping and the seller replaced with zero issues. I would buy from CSJumper again though, pending on how he handles this situation. I like to support forum vendors and he did ship quickly. I still would like to swap out my DTRL/Signals with Amber leds if the fitment issues are worked out???

    Last time I posted something like this I got negative rep. :rolleyes:
    [​IMG]
    886 lamp left, CSJUMPER LED right.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  4. Mar 21, 2013 at 5:50 AM
    #44
    LoadedTaco

    LoadedTaco [OP] Kick A$$ Member

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    I hear you after buying something from over a dozen vendors on here I knew it was only a matter of time before there was an issue. I was going to keep all the lights except the 4 Turns. The fronts didn't fit and in my mind fronts/backs are a package deal. I was going to ship them back on my own dime. I also was willing to not get refunded the whole amount. When I heard 30% restocking fee I knew I was getting messed with. He kept telling me how he makes hardly anything on these lights. Either he is getting worked by his suppliers or he just doesn't want to give up the doe.

    Unfortunately this was kind of a drawn out issue before it came to this. First, I had received the directions for the switch back lights (I didn't know that it did't pertain to me). I only bought the amber DTRL & Rear Turns that are closer to plug and play. The directions I received required cutting and caping some wires. So I got ahold of him and said I am not cutting up any wires on my new truck I would like to return them. He kept trying to tell me don't worry, don't worry. He had not realized that I got the wrong directions. Once I sent him pictures of the directions and issues I had he realized what my issue was.

    At this point my third brake light weren't brighter (Which I didn't bother him with), my dome light flickered, My map light kept popping out (fixed that), and my reverse lights (although super bright) throw light all over and in my back up camera it doesn't show much light when I back into my parking spot (which I didn't bother him with either).

    The next morning I went to install my DTRL that I got talked into keeping. Well what do you know? They dont fit. At this point I was done with the damn lights. I texted him a picture of the bottoms. Said they don't fit I want to return them. He refused to except a return on the rear turn signals, said he would "fix" the fronts for me. I offered him a courtesy to rectify the situation for $110 and I will ship them back. Or my reviews are going to reflect the negative experience I had. He told me to stop threatening. He obviously has not been in business a long time. I have never let a customer get off the phone or leave my office unhappy. Even if it costs money you never want someone pissed storming off ready to tell everyone they find about this shitty experience. He made it clear that I am in the wrong, there was nothing he could do other that chop up my new headlight. Since this is the place he does business, this is where I would like to make it clear what happened.

    Exactly. Thank you I know chris is a good guy. I paid a crap load for LEDs and well I wasn't happy. My review was fair and honest.


    Thank you Arron. He thought I was crazy when I was like "we both know the 30% restocking fee is crap." What is funny is my dad and a couple buddies were going to buy LEDs from him through me. I told him that I would get him more business to make up for this please just take these back.
     
  5. Mar 21, 2013 at 9:43 AM
    #45
    4WD

    4WD cRaZy oLdmAn

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    For the record I'm no fan boy of anyones, but what I'm addressing is the highlighted paragraph...

    I can't comment on Chris's inventory but 20%-30% restock is actually pretty common, not saying its right just saying its not unusual but I find it odd that you would throw your dad & friends under a bus directing them to a product you find inferior in order to get a refund that may or may not be warranted....:notsure:
     
  6. Mar 21, 2013 at 11:10 AM
    #46
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    And yes Doug is correct, 20-30% is pretty normal, and actually if I remember from Consumer law (US) anything less then 50% is legal.
     
  7. Mar 21, 2013 at 6:48 PM
    #47
    LoadedTaco

    LoadedTaco [OP] Kick A$$ Member

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    I wasn't throwing my Dad and buddies under the bus. I was pleased with the Interior lights, license plate lights, and reverse lights are alright. I was only trying to return the DTRL and Rear Turn signals.

    First of all chris is not some big company. He is a guy selling LED's on a forum. Considering I hadn't even taken them out of the bag except for the one that didn't fit they were and are as good as new. I got them and two days later wanted to return them.

    The whole point of a restocking fee is not free money due to inconvenience it is to bring a returned product back to it's new condition and the time to do so. If there was ware/tear on the product or if it was going to cost him money to fix my return then yes a restocking fee is warranted. In this situation that wasn't the case. Even my company has a 20% restocking fee, but we only enforce it when there is a reason to do so.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2013 at 12:50 PM
    #48
    csjumper2003

    csjumper2003 Jumper's Leds Vendor

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    This thread was started to review my third brake light leds that I sell. I wasn't going to even post in here because if someone wants to state their opinion then that is their option. I however began to read this thread and noticed that there was a lot of things said that wasn’t about the third brake led. Loaded taco I was trying to explain to you in text, pm’s and even phone conversation, that I do have an exchange warranty. It might not have been what you wanted to hear that has always been my policy. I’ve also explained that I would make sure you got the right dtrls this time. I apologized many times. I thought that this thread was going to be a review on the third brake light. I’ve since learned by reading through this thread that you didn’t really like any of the lights. Almost all of my pictures of products aren't of my truck.
    I didn’t want anyone to think that I was making a photo look different than it really was. I know from our numerous conversations that this review stemmed from you wanting a refund for the dtrls and rear turn signals. I also explained to you that I don’t give refunds, but that I would gladly exchange them, and again you told me that I would be sorry if I didn’t. "Refunds are part of having a business." You also went along to say that I know nothing about business, because with you being a marketing director you know one happy customer tells 3 and an unhappy one tells anyone he can. I also didn’t understand if you were so unhappy with my products then why did you say that you were going to tell everyone including your family to buy my products? It really doesn't matter. A few people on here have also said that you can buy off eBay and through China, and wait to get them cheaper. There are a few problems with that mentality. One a US seller makes any exchange problems you may have very easy. There are numerous leds that look the same, but aren't. A led bulb includes a few things, the circuit in the led, the board the led sits on and connections to make a quality led. Some even have resisters and cancelers inside of them to reach the goal you want. I understand you were not happy with the dtrls because they didn’t fit.
    I want to remedy that. The dtrls and resisters for the dtrls if you send them back I will refund you those products minus the 30% restocking fee.
    Restocking fees can be for a few different things. One in particular if that part isn’t on my shelves and I can’t sell them then that is loss of profit. On another note I wasn’t charging anything outrageous so I don’t understand why the 30% seems ridiculous.
    I did want to point out however, how did you know they didn’t fit if both stayed in the package. One didn’t, however I’ve told you I would take care of the pair of them. Just was curious...

    And also wanted to let people know the fraying on the resister that you think make it look used is because I take the resister connectors apart and redo them to make sure they are stronger.

    The rear turn signals there was nothing wrong with them as with the resistors that came with them. Also the rear turn signals were installed as you stated that you "installed them in your front turn signal areas." With electronics the reason why I have an exchange warranty is you never know what someone has done those leds, and they are no longer new and can’t be sold as such. So those will not warrant a refund. I’m sorry that this thread came to this, but I guess it is part of doing business. I hate having someone upset and try all the time to make sure that doesn't happen. I want people to know that I wasn’t going to say anything, but I then
    figured I maybe should.

    Aaronarf: I am a small business, that carry’s overhead. I do pay taxes, and I might be small but I do my best to take care of people. So to say a restocking fee is ridiculous is absurd. I not only sell on this forum I sell local and other forums. This isn’t a little side job it’s a business, I’ve been getting off the ground. And it’s not a fitment issue. It was a wrong sized pair of leds that he received and I’m trying to resolve the issue with loaded taco.

    Loaded taco if you’re wanting to do this pm me and we can get this taken care of. The offer stands. That is all I have to say on that subject.

    Thanks for the people that continue using my products, and know that I’m always changing things to make sure I have the best and quality product.



    Thanks
    -csjumper2003
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  9. Mar 22, 2013 at 2:12 PM
    #49
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly true, in many cases small "e"-retailers have to spend time/shipping to send an item back to the manufacture, and in return they are charged a fee, typically the re-stocking/return fees and conditions are set by the vendor and not the customer.
     
  10. Mar 22, 2013 at 3:55 PM
    #50
    LoadedTaco

    LoadedTaco [OP] Kick A$$ Member

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    If you look at my post I said "except the one that didn't fit". After that is when I had taken one of the reverse lights out because I noticed it was smaller size and matched the halogen I pulled out. I wouldn't have tried it but after I got the wrong directions I figured that you put the wrong lights in the wrong bag.

    You are right I don't like any of your lights. They all work but the only ones I liked I could have got for way less. Now that I whittled down the plastic on the DTRL they work. If I could have I would have returned all of them and bought the Ebay ones. I could have bought them 10 times and had over 100 lights. I guarantee I would have found 7 working ones to use as map, license plate, and third brake lights.


    Also I am a Marketing Director, you and Gelo760 seem to be really hung up on that title. Good to see you were creeping my profile. I never texted or messaged that to you? If I did I cant find it. I brought up two basic business principles that my business stands by. I never said you didn't know anything, but anyone could see if you disagree with my points you are an idiot.

    1) It cost 7 times more to get a new customer than it does to keep one.

    -Even if you ate the cost on the lights I wanted to return. I would have bought map lights for my dad and buddies cars (now that I know about the ebay lights I'll buy them there). I can't even imagine the amount of people that will buy them there now instead of from you. I already put up a nice before and after of the map and dome lights for you. I would have posted nice things on my build thread too. Finely, I wouldn't have had to tell people that PMed me that I don't like you lights. That is just this week.....Wait I forgot I don't know what I am talking about right? I am just some idiot marketing director? I didn't threaten you with reviews I gave you an opportunity to make up for the products I got and hated before I reviewed them. I would kill to have that opportunity if I had a pissed customer. Maybe I will put that link to the Ebay lights in my signature so that anyone that goes through the posts on your thread might will see my link? I am not going to so chill I am not that mad. I just hate wasting my money and being told too bad.


    2) Happy customers on average tell 3 people, angry customers tell 7-10 (in this day and age it is easier to tell hundreds)

    -40 posts later and over 1000 views I might be right? What about your other forums? You think I cant find you there either? I am not going to and I am done with this, but think about it. Does that point make any sense?



    This is over and I am not returning anything. Enjoy my money and good luck with the new business. Maybe I look a little crazy, but shit who isn't. The more you sell the more people like me you will come across. I hate that you sold me lights that didn't fit, that flicker, and are not that bright. I have the satisfaction in knowing that now you can't honestly say no one has any complaints on this forum.


    Sorry Chris.


    I see your point and agree with that. I feel given the condition of the lights I was sending back and the fact that there was nothing wrong with them that wasn't the case...but

    I guess in this case my assumptions are wrong. Seems to me like Chris is getting taken for a ride by his suppliers. According to him he barely makes anything on these lights. I feel sorry if that is the case. Most people are in business to make money not break even.
     
  11. Mar 22, 2013 at 5:59 PM
    #51
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    Given you're title I'm assuming you are a degreed Professional like myself? And being assuredly educated I feel you should be aware of the current economic state of this country, in most cases buisnesses and especially small businesses have to stay competive in order to keep revenue flow going, even if the bottom line is reduced in some form.

    With that said perhaps before the public forum is attempted try exhausting your options and work with the vendor instead of a possible alter negative point?
     
  12. Mar 23, 2013 at 1:10 AM
    #52
    AaronArf

    AaronArf Well-Known Member

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    We can go around in circles all day about what's right, and whats wrong. This is clearly turning into a pissing contest of fan boys and local cronies. Welcome to the internet. Land of opinions and bs.

    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacoma-marketplace/176932-fs-led-lights-90.html#post6632048

    If I we're Chris I'd be upset that the local fan boys are asking reviews to be posted -- looks kind of pathetic from a potential customers prospective. Considering great customer service speaks for itself. I know when I am treated above and beyond by a vendor I go out of my way to make it known -- especially a vendor that is supporting the TW community.

    From what I've interpreted Loaded did give Chris the opportunity to make it right to HIS expectations. Chris didn't or couldn't so he posted his view on HIS experience. Chris posted his side. At the end of the day, Chris has the right to come up with whatever fees, shipping charges, product mark up and customer service practice he wants -- its his business.

    We the consumer can choose to buy from whoever meets our customer/product expectations based on the information out there. (Reviews, BBB, eBay feedback, forum reputation etc.)

    Let new or returning customers make their decision based upon the information thats out there. Both positive and negative.

    I am officially off my soap box, and done with this thread.
    Have a nice day! :wave: :deadhorse:

    EDIT: I know I've said this in previous posts. I have ordered through Chris before and he was prompt in returning PM's and the product shipped quickly. No issues with my lights to this day over a year later, the reverse lights just didn't perform to my expectations on the reverse camera. (which is common to most LED reverse lights not just Chris's.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  13. Mar 23, 2013 at 2:10 AM
    #53
    bullaculla

    bullaculla IKA fabrications

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    I love my CSjumper lights. I don't have the 3rd brake light, just interior and reverse, but even if they aren't much brighter, the biggest reason to switch to LEDs, especially the brake lights are the speed that they light up compared to incandescent.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?72094-LED-vs-Incandescent-tail-lights
    That's why so many auto manufacturers are switching to LED brake lights.
    Plus they draw less power. But those lights are hardly on enough to matter. I accidentally left my interior lights on all night after I installed my FSjumper lights and the battery was fine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  14. Mar 23, 2013 at 8:21 AM
    #54
    sherlock

    sherlock Well-Known Member

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    snipe:
    A 30% restocking fee is totally uncalled for and is "ridiculous is absurd" as mentioned here by others. Your 30% restocking fee, plain and simple is merely aimed at getting people to eat a product that they are unhappy with. I understand the why's of a restocking fee but your 30% tells me lots (not positive either) about your business model..

    I'm also shaking my head and saying to myself why was this vendor so foolish but to come here and make any negative comments what so ever about his customer. The vendor should have done the dirty laundry elsewhere. (via email, PM's, phone call) Customer should have been made happy, end of story! Perspective customers seeing past customers pleased with a vendor are good for sales but an unhappy customer hurts sales to say the least. A vendor is better off eating a few $ and to be done with an issue versus losing $ upon $ because of an avoidable, Customer Service issue. A small, fledgling business can't afford to lose a single customer let alone many customers.

    In closing, yes this thread has gotten out of hand but the thread has enlightened forum member's here. I see clearly where both parties (customer and vendor) have lots to learn. Both parties should have worked this out elsewhere, versus coming here for this little forum debacle.
     
  15. Mar 23, 2013 at 10:40 AM
    #55
    LoadedTaco

    LoadedTaco [OP] Kick A$$ Member

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    I have a bachelors in marketing. I never said that I had a crazy amount of experience. My company has been around for 27 years and we do whatever it takes to keep customers happy within reason. Nothing I brought up is a complex business concept. I feel the fact I have to keep defending it is a joke. No degree needed to know biting the hand that feeds you is a mistake.

    Given the current economic state pissing off customers is definitely one of the worst mistakes a business can make. He has high prices for his LED's and he doesn't appear to be very competitive. I think he is the only one selling LED's on this forum and he only posts up the dome/map light combo price and a range of prices.

    The reason I went here is this is the only option I had after not resolving my issues with the vendor. I bought them here so it seems pertinent to express my negative experience here. Although this definitely went waaay to far.


    I am done talking about this.


    Well said thank you.




    Thank you and this was the only place I felt was appropriate to voice my disappointment, but this has gone way over the top.


    I think it is safe to say this thread needs to end. I was going to review the other lights....I think I will take a pass this time.
     
  16. Mar 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM
    #56
    csjumper2003

    csjumper2003 Jumper's Leds Vendor

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    This does need to stop. It was spun from you not getting a refund. I have an exchange warranty for manufacturer defects. I decided to give you your money back for the leds you hadnt installed or didnt fit. It is against my policy to give a refund, but I thought I was doing the right thing. I never try to make a customer mad and I always try to help as much as I can. I am sorry you didnt like the result and it came to this. As stated this is done and he decided to keep them instead of return them. Again im sorry it came to this, wish it didnt.
     
  17. Mar 29, 2013 at 9:54 AM
    #57
    Changchung

    Changchung Member

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    Hi guys, I just subscribe to this forum to try help a little before buying Leds, I am from Venezuela and I know a little about Leds.

    Sorry for my bad english, lets start with the colors of the Leds.

    Never put a color Led in a tail light with different color, e.g.

    White Led in a Red or amber tail light
    Blue Led in a Red or amber tail light


    You can use Red and/or Amber Leds in a Red or Amber tail light

    About what model of Led lamps or bulbs buy

    Just because their are Led dosent mean that the are good and bright, exist various models of Leds, regular Leds like 3mm or 5mm are in the first Leds gen bulbs them we can find that I can call second gen with SMD Leds like 5050 model, they are small with multi Leds chips inside, small package, more Leds, more output.

    3mm one chip
    5mm one chip
    5050 three chips

    Some others SMD Leds are not that bright.

    I am going to NOT recomend Reds and Amber Leds bulbs, those bulbs must be bright and LEGAL, this kind of Leds bulbs are no legal in almost all USA and others countries. And you must install a resistor to avoid faster flash or change the flasher relay of your car.

    Use Leds for, parking lights, tag lights, dash lights, map lights, roof lights. I some cases you can choice a good Led bulb for the reverse Light, I will post some new model later.

    I am going to show some pics here to point you in the right direction.

    T10 bulbs that I recomend, try to find the max of 5050 Leds in this bulbs, be carefull with the lenght, I think that the max are 13 Leds, some of this come with CAMBUS that avoid error from the computer of the car

    [​IMG]

    Here another model with more Leds, I dont know that already come with more 5050 Leds

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This model had FLASH mode on it

    [​IMG]

    I dont recomend any of this Leds bulbs, they are very cheap and bad quality

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    This T10 models are small and bright, if the space is small you can use them

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I dont recomend install parking lights Leds if the bulb is close to the halogen, the heat of it can blow the Leds.

    Here is that I can call 3rd GEN, their are MUCH brighter but we have the HEAT concern, if those bulbs cant dissipate the temperature can be blow faster than any regular bulb, here a sample;

    This model had 4 CREE Leds, each of them can push 300 lumen in a perfect world. If you want to try some of them buy just one and try to find that their are REGULATED, that prevent that can be blow with some high voltages in the car

    [​IMG]

    This is a T10 model with a single CREE Led, I dont think that this can handdle the heat of the Led

    [​IMG]

    I know those and they are bad;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    1156, 1157, 3156, 3157 bright but bad quality of Leds

    [​IMG]

    Those are brigth but not enought for a 1156 bulb

    [​IMG]

    For reverse light here some samples;

    Called; 1.5w epistar chips+ 2 pcs cree

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Why for reverse light? Because you dont turn on for long time.

    For the maps lights and dome lamps I recomend you this, come in differents sizes with various bulbs connections

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I hope to help a little with this, feel free to ask...

    BTW, I dont sell any of this bulbs
     
  18. Jun 13, 2013 at 12:29 AM
    #58
    michaelw.grey

    michaelw.grey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Member:
    #105119
    Messages:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    mike
    pensacola, florida
    Vehicle:
    98 4x4 SR5 3.4L V6 AUTO Ext Cab
    tinted windows, low pro black tool box, line-x spray in bedliner over rails, rain guards, 55w 5000k hids
    Last post was a total thread jack! lol. Wow what a heated post. Well here is my 2 cents. Ive been doing lots of research on going LED and now understand some pro's and con's. IMO customer service is everything, and just having someone close by to talk about what I want means everything to me. I will glady pay 5 times the price of china stuff if i can shake hands with my vendor.(wishing i lived near chris). On the other note I can easily see how the customer would be slightly upset in this one small issue that has blossemd. I feel sorry for all of the headaches on both sides.
     
  19. Jun 13, 2013 at 6:47 AM
    #59
    Changchung

    Changchung Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Member:
    #100844
    Messages:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Miami Florida
    Vehicle:
    SR5
    I just try to help, I really hate to see such abuse and over price on cheap products...

    Feel free to buy and pay anything you want...
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  20. Jun 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM
    #60
    michaelw.grey

    michaelw.grey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Member:
    #105119
    Messages:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    mike
    pensacola, florida
    Vehicle:
    98 4x4 SR5 3.4L V6 AUTO Ext Cab
    tinted windows, low pro black tool box, line-x spray in bedliner over rails, rain guards, 55w 5000k hids
    changchung: hey i hear ya, your other thraeds were some of the first things ive read about with LEDs. So thank you.
     
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