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Throwout bearing again!!

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by P. Bauer, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. Oct 31, 2008 at 6:22 AM
    #1
    P. Bauer

    P. Bauer [OP] Well-Known Member

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    This is the fourth time I've taken my truck in for the same thing, I'm embarrassed that Toyota cannot figure this out and have the audacity to point the finger at me.

    Start truck, neutral, clutch out. After 3-5 minutes, a nasty chirping sound starts coming from the trans. area. If you put your foot on the clutch and press about 1", noise goes away. Toyota has replaced the TO Bearing four times. On two of those occasions, they replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel, as "goodwill" measures.

    I'm not a transmission expert, but I'd say the cause of the failing TO bearings might be something other than the bearings. Obviously the input shaft from the trans. is not true and makes contact with the TO bearing. They either need to fix this transmission, or give me a new 6-speed.

    And just to play devil's advocate, how would you go about breaking the TO bearing on a manual trans. without causing damage to anything else? This is the question I posed to Toyota when they mentioned this may excessive driving/towing.

    Really Toyota...really?!?

    Can't wait to see the look on the face of the General Manager and District Manager when I bring the truck in today. They were very, very confident that they fixed it last time. I am sure they will have a reason how I "broke" it again.

    =(

    2006 Tacoma TRD Off-Road, 49,650 miles.
     
  2. Oct 31, 2008 at 6:44 AM
    #2
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    Yeah... but it's not like you want to spend trips to having it serviced and losing your truck for days. :(

    Sorry this is happening to you. I had the same problem with my 2.7L 5-Speed manual. It is one of the reasons that I didn't have a problem going to the Automatic when I moved up to a Double Cab.

    I hope they figure it out for you.
     
  3. Oct 31, 2008 at 6:52 AM
    #3
    MacTak

    MacTak Member

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    Woah, and I am wanting a stick shift??? For reliability...
     
  4. Oct 31, 2008 at 10:12 AM
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    aaronatl

    aaronatl ©1975

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    has it ever been wrecked or the engine replaced??
     
  5. Oct 31, 2008 at 10:16 AM
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    Radelix

    Radelix Runs with Scissors

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    I say trans/engine alignment off. Slight stress on input shaft. engine/trans mounts might be culprit
     
  6. Oct 31, 2008 at 10:28 AM
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    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    You should look into the lemon laws. http://www.californialemonlawattorneys.com/

    I think if you've had it repaired three times for the same thing, it falls within the guidelines.
     
  7. Oct 31, 2008 at 1:17 PM
    #7
    paintdiddy

    paintdiddy Machine gun shits

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    And just to play devil's advocate, how would you go about breaking the TO bearing on a manual trans. without causing damage to anything else? This is the question I posed to Toyota when they mentioned this may excessive driving/towing.

    Really Toyota...really?!?

    tell the fuker its a truck and they are meant to be driven and used for towing.
    off subject but just goes to show that dealers suck the big one.my dodge dealer fukd me when they couldnt find a problem with my 00 dodge ram until i put a lift in it and they blamed that for the problem. it was at the dealer 4 times before the lift. those fukrs. it turned out to be the rear not the trans
    my brother bought a new 03 dodge dually for his towing company and the dealer made him buy a $4000 warranty because he was using it to tow a 3 car trailer. would you buy a dually to go the supermarket.
     
  8. Oct 31, 2008 at 9:45 PM
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    P. Bauer

    P. Bauer [OP] Well-Known Member

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    No sir, just driven like a truck. Up to Tahoe for skiing, dirt roads/off-road for camping, towing a double-axle trailer for racing (NASA). And the occasional trip down the pavement to go to work and grocery store.

    I'm sure my local Toyota dealership thinks I enter the Baja 1000 every other week and cliff jump regularly. And the only thing that seems to be broken on my truck is the TO bearing.

    I'm embarrassed for Toyota, how many times do they need to take it apart before they figure it out.

    I'm going to suggest the input shaft (alignment), pilot bearing, motor mounts, trans mounts.

    Thanks for the input guys/gals!
     
  9. Nov 1, 2008 at 12:03 AM
    #9
    RelentlessFab

    RelentlessFab Tacoma offroad armor fabricating beast Vendor

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    i say.... try a different dealer. tell them the other one cant seem to fix your truck and you want it done right this time!
     
  10. Nov 3, 2008 at 8:26 AM
    #10
    SnoBoarder

    SnoBoarder Hardcore wheeler, try and keep up.... if you can.

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    P. Bauer -

    I'm willing to bet the farm that your problem is no longer the Throw Out Bearing (aka Release Bearing by the Dealer.) My 05 had the same problem at 75K miles. The first chirping sounds were caused by a cracked Release Bearing. I still have it. The crack increased the inner diameter of the Release Bearing and allowed it to wobble on the aluminum Pilot Shaft (which is press-fit into the bell housing.) The Release Bearing is designed to maintain contact with the pressure plate at all times and the outer ring will spin at all times, but the inner ring is supposed to have a nice tight fit and simply slide forward and back about an inch or so on the Pilot Shaft. Once the inner ring of the Release Bearing cracks or wears and begins to wobble, and it seems to wear down the pilot shaft, creating an even more lose fit, causing more wobbling and louder chirping. The wobble is the cause of the chirping, plain and simple. Neither Grease nor a replacement Release Bearing will fix the problem long term, the grease will push out eventually leaving the lose fit to cause the chirp.

    If you want proof in front of the dealer, simply lift the truck with the engine running and remove the Bell Housing Cover Plate and point a flashlight up there to look at the Release Bearing (drivers side.) You will see the outer ring of the Release Bearing spinning and that is perfectly normal. When it chirps, you should be able to see the throw out bearing wobbling which is not normal. If you can't see it happening, apply just a small amount of pressure on the slave cylinder once you start hearing the chirp, (small cylinder with a rubber boot just below the opening you are looking in to) with a screw driver and the chirping will stop. It is very easy to do this test and is identical to depressing the clutch pedal 1/2 inch or so.

    The only repair is to replace the Bell Housing because the pilot shaft (unlike the 5-speed manuals) is a non serviceable or replaceable component. If you can get a new transmission, you'll be better off and the dealers usually prefer to replace the tranny based on the the time and difficulty of a rebuild. Theoretically, if Toyota made replacement Release Bearings with different inner diameters, the repair would be less costly. Many times, a technician will go through all the effort to give you a new Release Bearing, Pressure Plate and clutch disc, and slave cylinder, or various combinations of those components only to find you back in the shop within a couple of weeks or less. Worse, they replace the flywheel (the spec is .001 inch of runout on that) the second time around, which is another often misdiagnosis for the chirp.

    The test I described is cheap and easy so try it and let us know. I've covered this in detail at ToyotaNation if you search there.

    I use the clutch in my 07 a lot less. Brakes are cheap in comparison so I don't down shift if I don't have to. I don't sit at lights with my clutch pedal depressed ever. I never inch forward, I'll sit with 2 or 3 car lengths before I ever inch forward like the auto's do. For me, I love 2nd gen tacoma 6-speeds so this time around I'm taking a few extra precautions knowing that there is a potential design flaw with that Release Bearing/Bell Housing/Pilot Shaft combination.

    Good luck.
     
  11. Nov 3, 2008 at 8:32 AM
    #11
    P. Bauer

    P. Bauer [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Snoboarder...thanks so much for this info. Printing and taking it with me to the dealer (no names, just the information!).

    Really appreciate your help, hope this fixes it once and for all. I'm definitely asking for a new 6-speed when I go in tomorrow.

    =D
     
  12. Nov 3, 2008 at 8:57 AM
    #12
    SnoBoarder

    SnoBoarder Hardcore wheeler, try and keep up.... if you can.

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    If they pull the transmission out for diagnosis, have them measure the Pilot Shaft with some calipers and you will probably see a large discrepency from the spec along the length of travel of the Release Bearing. That is where you have to argue against normal wear and tear on a clutch "assembly."

    Try to plan some responses in the event this is what is discovered. I insisted on being in the shop for the diagnosis as described above, and again in the shop for measuring the Pilot Shaft diameter. Maybe you can argue that a failed $40 Release Bearing caused extensive damage to the Pilot Shaft or maybe you can argue that their failure to diagnose it correctly the first 4 times has now caused extensive damage to that shaft. Give it some thought and we wish you luck.

    Keep us posted!
     
  13. Dec 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM
    #13
    roxspin72

    roxspin72 Enjoying my addiction

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    I am having this exact issue. Thought it was belts, and thought that it had something to do with up front pulleys and all. But, after carefully diagnosing where the sound is coming from, I have finally pinpointed it to within the Bell housing area.

    Have not been to the dealer yet, and I am definately dreading it due to my mods. But if this is the actuall issue, is there any way to completely eliminate the OEM parts. Maybe an aftermarket throwout bearing.

    How much time do I have before this start getting detrimental to my entire trans. I say I have noticed it more in the past week or so. Thought I heard it before, but went away. Was under the impression that cold weather was the culprit, but after driving around all day, you can now clearly hear it at idle.

    Very pissed, truck is not even 1 year old. What next:mad:
     
  14. Dec 13, 2008 at 6:00 PM
    #14
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    ...the funny thing is - no one knows if it is detrimental or just annoying. :(
     
  15. Dec 13, 2008 at 7:33 PM
    #15
    roxspin72

    roxspin72 Enjoying my addiction

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    I just spent an hour searching TN, CT, and TTORA. This is a definately common issue. Crappy part is I have to prove that it's not wear and tear due to the way I drive. still no TSB on this one.

    Will look into it some more tomorrow, and make sure Im not mistaken.
     
  16. Dec 14, 2008 at 10:29 AM
    #16
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes...
     
  17. Dec 14, 2008 at 11:04 AM
    #17
    nocarsallowed

    nocarsallowed Well-Known Member

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    Have you heard of lemon laws? By this law if you experience the problem three times after repair, Toyota has to buy back the vehicle.

    But wait, since you're at 49,650 miles, you won't qualify because you're out of the 3-year bumper to bumper warranty. But I could be wrong about this. Maybe the powertrain warranty qualifies under lemon laws....you have to research it.

    Have you experienced this problem and have it repaired within the warranty?
     
  18. Dec 14, 2008 at 5:29 PM
    #18
    SnoBoarder

    SnoBoarder Hardcore wheeler, try and keep up.... if you can.

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    roxspin72-
    It is impossible to diagnose it as detrimental at this time without dropping the transmission and taking some measurements. If the chirping has just started, it may be that the Release Bearing is cracked and has not worn down the aluminum Pilot Shaft yet, and a new Release Bearing is all that is needed. Time and driving the truck in this condition will work against you and temperature changes will cause metal to expand and contract which may cause the chirp to come and go at random, in the early stages at least. Getting in to the dealer for diagnosis fast is your best bet. Knowing that the Release Bearing is steel and the pilot shaft is aluminum, the issue of possible detrimental damage to that Pilot Shaft becomes clear. Since that Pilot Shaft is press fit in to the Transmission Bell Housing, replacing the Pilot Shaft requires replacing the entire bell housing and that is a $400 part plus a massive amount of labor time and effort, so a Dealer will often chose to replace with a new transmission which I agree is the best route.

    Also, I would be humble and non confrontational with the dealer. If they put it on the lift and remove the cover plate and let it idle, you both can look up there and see the Release Bearing wobble and chirp and you can tell them that this seems to be occuring Nation wide to many others. If they won't budge on warranty but they offer to work with you on the costs, any little bit is going to help with that bill. If the Original Poster can update us on his experiences, that may help you out.

    (Pics in Post#23)
     
  19. Dec 14, 2008 at 5:42 PM
    #19
    roxspin72

    roxspin72 Enjoying my addiction

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    Thanks for the info. Will get my truck to the shop within the week. As far as warranty issues, will having put in the URD shifter Mod have any efects in regards to the TO Bearing?
     
  20. Dec 14, 2008 at 6:01 PM
    #20
    SnoBoarder

    SnoBoarder Hardcore wheeler, try and keep up.... if you can.

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    IMHO the short throw shifter seems to not be related to the the Release Bearing or amount of travel it has along the Pilot Shaft, or affect the Pilot Shaft in any way, but you know what I'm going to say... if it were me, I'd pull the urd shifter. My 05 was heavily modified and that got me no where, but I was one of the first handful of owners nationwide to have the issue.

    Now if there are guys adjusting the clutch engagement point (which can be easily done) to shorten the clutch throw, or add washers to take out the small amount of clutch pedal free play common with our trucks, that can and will effect the RB in many subtle ways. It is still speculation until they drop that tranny but you can see what they offer.
     
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