1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Tongue weight limit

Discussion in 'Towing' started by waynef, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Sep 3, 2011 at 5:45 PM
    #1
    waynef

    waynef [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Member:
    #61384
    Messages:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Wayne
    Dexter, MI
    Vehicle:
    2011 SR5
    Undercover SE
    A number of people have said that the Taco has a 650 lb tongue weight limit, but I can't find anything in my 2011 manual that says that. The receiver itself only says "see owner's manual".

    The manual says that the tow limit is 6500 and to keep the tongue weight close to 10%, so you might get a 650 tongue limit out of that, but it is a stretch.

    The manual gives limit for tow weight, GCVR, GVWR, and each axle. I figure that with a properly adjusted weight distributing hitch and nothing in the truck except two people, I could get the tongue weight up around 900 before I hit either the GVWR or rear axle limits.

    I'm thinking about a travel trailer, which generally have closer to 15% tongue weight, so I could be above 650 tongue and still well below the 6500 tow capacity.

    So where did the 650 lb tongue limit come from?
     
  2. Sep 3, 2011 at 5:47 PM
    #2
    RelentlessFab

    RelentlessFab Tacoma offroad armor fabricating beast Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Member:
    #4772
    Messages:
    13,376
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Eric
    Eastern side of the Sierras, NV
    Vehicle:
    07 SR5 4x4> 03 SR5 4x4 total> 14 Crewmax TRD
    Had tons on the Taco's.... new truck is pretty stock
    just comes from that 10% rule you saw, and toyota's calculation of GVWR/GAWR ratings.
    I probably had close to 1000lbs tongue weight at times on my 07 and it was fine. Just need to build the truck to handle the load, and take it easy on it. It's not a 3/4ton truck, so as long as you dont expect it to perform like one you're fine IMO.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2011 at 10:26 PM
    #3
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd
    If you have a *real* tongue weight of 900lbs, without WD you'd add about 1,350lbs to your rear axle. You would certainly be over the limit of the rear axle, even with nobody in the truck. With perfect WD, you'd still add 700-750lbs to the rear axle, and you'd probably be over the limit or very close with two people in the truck.
    Consider that the WD hitch itself comes in at around 100lbs.
    No, a trailer with a 900lbs tongue weight is not a good idea for a Tacoma. You'd be pushing the limits of a 1/2 ton truck with that. Don't do it!
    Where does the 650lbs come from? Competition. Manufacturers trying to beat tow ratings. A flatbed trailer with 90% of the weight over the axles at 6,500lbs *might* be fine, even though I'd not try it.

    BTW, here is where Toyota states a maximum tongue weight of 640lbs, assuming you have the factory tow package:
    http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/specs.html That's not a stretch or assumption, it's pretty clear.
    Without factory tow, it's 350lbs. 4th line down:


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Sep 4, 2011 at 8:30 AM
    #4
    waynef

    waynef [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Member:
    #61384
    Messages:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Wayne
    Dexter, MI
    Vehicle:
    2011 SR5
    Undercover SE
    OK, now I see the tongue limit in the spec sheet. I still can't find it in the manual.

    Looking at a more realistic example, a 4500 lb trailer with a 100 lb WDH, the tongue weight can't exceed 550, or 12%. which is a little light for a travel trailer.

    When people recommend a certain % tongue weight to avoid sway, they are not including the weight of the hitch, right? In that case Toyota specs have an interesting contradiction. The Tacoma can theoretically tow 6500, but they want 10% tongue weight and a WDH, and the tongue load can't exceed 650. You can't get there.
     
  5. Sep 4, 2011 at 8:41 AM
    #5
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd
    Yes, it is tricky.
    You stated it correctly. Realistically, a Tacoma can not tow a TT that's over around 4,000 - 4,500 lbs (absolute max IMO) safely because of tongue weight / GVW concerns. Even at that weight, it's not much fun because you can't load anything else (or need to put it all into the trailer, which then becomes a balancing act). Imagine breaking camp on a rainy day, having to put all that dirty camping gear in the trailer because your truck can't handle it. No firewood?

    A full size truck is the better choice for this kind of job. But even the 4WD Tundra has a very low payload rating ....
     
  6. Sep 4, 2011 at 8:45 AM
    #6
    RCBS

    RCBS Mr Thundermaker is about to start barking fire!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Member:
    #5845
    Messages:
    2,484
    Gender:
    Male
    Appalachia
    Vehicle:
    06 Main Runner OR
    not sure if it comes into play in this case, but don't forget tire load rating.
     
  7. Sep 6, 2011 at 2:43 PM
    #7
    RCBS

    RCBS Mr Thundermaker is about to start barking fire!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Member:
    #5845
    Messages:
    2,484
    Gender:
    Male
    Appalachia
    Vehicle:
    06 Main Runner OR
    X2 on proper distribution. I see lot of folks hauling lawnmowers, atvs and such loaded all the way to the front of trailer instead of centering load over the axle. (of the trailer)
     
  8. Sep 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM
    #8
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd
    Payload is not distributed EVENLY across the rear axle. Payload is the distributed across both axles, NOT EVENLY though (more to the rear of course). People in the truck, for example, are part of the payload. And people sitting in the front will have most of their weight on the front axle.

    With WD, the tongue weight does not change. The weight (pressure) on the hitch ball increases, While the load on the receiver decreases. In a typical setup, about 20-25% of the tongue weight gets transferred back to the trailer axles, so 75-80% of the tonge weight needs to be aaccounted for as payload. Add the weight of the WD hitch itself, and you are back at around 100% with a 600-650lbs tongue weight. That means if the trailer has a tongue weight of 650lbs, you need to take the 650 lbs off your payload, leaving you ~ 500 - 600 lbs for everything else (incl people) with a 4WD Tacoma.
     
  9. Sep 7, 2011 at 9:33 PM
    #9
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd
    This is not true. Payload means anything and everything loaded into a vehicle beyond it's curb weight.
     
  10. Sep 8, 2011 at 7:40 AM
    #10
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd

    Dude, this has nothing to do with marketing terms.
    There is a sticker in your door jamb that lists the payload of the truck. That number includes everything loaded, including people.
    It is absolutely irrelevant what "you" or anybody else "generally considers" to be payload, cargo, or anything else, LOL. We are talking about a Toyota Tacoma here, and all that matters is Toyotas definition. Here, I'll help you (copy & paste from Toyota's website):
    "Payload is the GVWR minus curb weight and includes weight of occupants, optional equipment and cargo, limited by weight distribution."
    You know, I think you are making an ass of yourself, and continue to do so, because you appear to have no idea what you are talking about, LOL. :D



    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]
     
  11. Jan 18, 2012 at 5:31 PM
    #11
    Ray

    Ray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Member:
    #69979
    Messages:
    313
    Gender:
    Male
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    09 Pre-Runner
    I was taught by a professional truck driver and experienced rv hauler, to measure the height of the hitch without a trailer on it. Than, hook up a loaded trailer and if the hitch drops 2-inches, you're good to go. If not, adjust the trailer load fore or aft to get the 2-inch drop.

    That's how I've done it towing with three trucks: Dodge Dakota, F-150 and now my '09 Tacoma. Hasn't let me down yet.

    Ray
     
  12. Oct 3, 2012 at 7:24 AM
    #12
    puckstopper55

    puckstopper55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Member:
    #56857
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Long Island
    Vehicle:
    '11 Double Cab TRD Sport, Mag Grey
    tailgate anti-theft Map Light LED's Dome Light LED LP LED Halogen Bed Light Extra D-Rings in bed Anytime Fog Lights Tri-Fold tonnau cover Wet Ok's
    So I am bringing back a dead thread with a related question. I am looking to get an aluminum hitch cargo carrier with a rated load of 500lb. The cargo carrier states it fits a 2" class 3 hitch. I believe the 2011 with towing package has a 2" class IV hitch. My question is ... Do you agree that even if I load this cargo carrier to the max (500lbs) it will be ok? I would assume the tongue weight from my boat would be about the same, but all of this weight just pushing downward (without anything else behind it) just kind of mind freaks me out a bit. I am slightly worried about bending the hitch/frame (maybe from going over a bump). Would you recommend driving at highway speeds with one of these attached? I am basically going to use it for the cooler when we go camping or to a Nascar race or something.
     
  13. Oct 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM
    #13
    shemp

    shemp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Member:
    #85354
    Messages:
    423
    Gender:
    Male
    You should be fine with that, but I really don't like those things. Not for a pickup. Possibly for something like a minivan, but not at 500 pounds on one of those.

    About the bump load: Lets imagine that you've got a 5000 pound trailer with a 500 pound tongue weight. When you go over a bump with that, the whole trailer can pitch back and forth, so the instantaneous load could VASTLY exceed 500 pounds. With a total of 500 pounds on the hitch, you can only add as much as you can accelerate 500 pounds to. With a 5000 pound trailer, you could be temporarily supporting 2000+ on the hitch. On top of that, just using the brakes on your truck can drive the hitch DOWN with a trailer. With a 500 pound extension like you suggest, braking won't affect it.

    So don't worry about it.
     
  14. Oct 3, 2012 at 1:45 PM
    #14
    puckstopper55

    puckstopper55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Member:
    #56857
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Long Island
    Vehicle:
    '11 Double Cab TRD Sport, Mag Grey
    tailgate anti-theft Map Light LED's Dome Light LED LP LED Halogen Bed Light Extra D-Rings in bed Anytime Fog Lights Tri-Fold tonnau cover Wet Ok's
    Whats the difference between a truck and minivan with respect to one of these?
     
  15. Oct 4, 2012 at 5:00 AM
    #15
    shemp

    shemp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Member:
    #85354
    Messages:
    423
    Gender:
    Male
    Two points in favor of a truck for ABILITY to handle this application;
    1) Truck has a frame, minivan is unibody.
    2) Truck has a suspension made for carrying a variable load, minivan has a suspension made for carrying 4 children.

    One point in favor of minivan for REASON to have one:
    3) Truck is a truck that has a capacity to carry cargo without any hitch add-ons, so really shouldn't need one, minivan is screwed any way you look at it. If you need the extra space in a truck, just pile it up higher.
     
  16. Oct 4, 2012 at 5:05 AM
    #16
    puckstopper55

    puckstopper55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Member:
    #56857
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Long Island
    Vehicle:
    '11 Double Cab TRD Sport, Mag Grey
    tailgate anti-theft Map Light LED's Dome Light LED LP LED Halogen Bed Light Extra D-Rings in bed Anytime Fog Lights Tri-Fold tonnau cover Wet Ok's
    I agree with you, which is why I was surprised that you wouldn't recommend one of these for a truck.
     
  17. Oct 4, 2012 at 5:40 AM
    #17
    shemp

    shemp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Member:
    #85354
    Messages:
    423
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't recommend it for a truck because it isn't (shouldn't be) needed and makes the back of the vehicle more vulnerable. The only reason it makes sense on a minivan is because they're effed for cargo. Usually, when the load is so great that you can't put a little extra on the truck, your load is so great that you should use an actual trailer.
     
  18. Oct 4, 2012 at 6:31 AM
    #18
    puckstopper55

    puckstopper55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Member:
    #56857
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Long Island
    Vehicle:
    '11 Double Cab TRD Sport, Mag Grey
    tailgate anti-theft Map Light LED's Dome Light LED LP LED Halogen Bed Light Extra D-Rings in bed Anytime Fog Lights Tri-Fold tonnau cover Wet Ok's

    Or in my case, I dont want to take my cover off because I will be driving through rain and the cooler wont fit under the cover! I see what your saying though.
     
  19. Oct 5, 2012 at 8:56 AM
    #19
    sechsgang

    sechsgang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Member:
    #3112
    Messages:
    361
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    06 DC TRD OR 4WD 6spd
    You would add about 800lbs to your rear axle with that setup (with 500lbs on that carrier). Unless you have nothing else in the truck bed, you would most likely go over the rear axle rating. And with nothing in the bed, why use one of those carriers in the first place?
     
  20. Oct 5, 2012 at 10:20 AM
    #20
    puckstopper55

    puckstopper55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Member:
    #56857
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Long Island
    Vehicle:
    '11 Double Cab TRD Sport, Mag Grey
    tailgate anti-theft Map Light LED's Dome Light LED LP LED Halogen Bed Light Extra D-Rings in bed Anytime Fog Lights Tri-Fold tonnau cover Wet Ok's
    im pretty sure the rear axle could handle more than 800lbs. The carrier itself is only about 30lbs.
     
To Top