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tooter 2.7 intake manifold spacer...

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by tooter, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Jul 18, 2013 at 8:33 PM
    #41
    BrokenTusk

    BrokenTusk I support a velociraptor free workplace.

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    Above all else, your scientific process is outstanding. Congrats and I hope this adventure proves very fruitful for you :)
     
  2. Jul 18, 2013 at 9:23 PM
    #42
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    Thanks for the kind words, Tusk. :)
    I actually don't know all that much and am learning as I go. In the Army, it's called OJT (on the job training), and each new experience becomes my teacher. ;)

    The manifold also serves another useful function. The CNC machinist will use it to get all of his measurements to make the spacer, most notably, the groove to accept the stock O ring gasket. He'll have it this Saturday.

    Greg
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  3. Jul 18, 2013 at 9:38 PM
    #43
    BrokenTusk

    BrokenTusk I support a velociraptor free workplace.

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    Thats how it always goes man, learning as you go, I'm in the middle of a similar project myself. Should be finished within a month or two with data to publish.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSUMBBFjxrY

    haha also always good to have trade skilled friends :thumbsup:
     
  4. Jul 18, 2013 at 9:54 PM
    #44
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    I'd literally be nothing without them.

    What are you working on? (It's ok if you don't want to say.)
     
  5. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:05 PM
    #45
    BrokenTusk

    BrokenTusk I support a velociraptor free workplace.

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    Bought a bunch of data logging gear, going to be stepping up fuel pre-heating in slow stages and definitively measure its results, answer the question once and for all on my '13 Scion tC. See what happens to Hp/Trq, MPG's, ignition timing, everything.

    The tC runs a semi-high torq 4 banger, the 2AR-FE. Results of mine should carry over similarly to the 2.7L

    At least, thats the plan haha.
     
  6. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:20 PM
    #46
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Tooter... do you intend to run this through the CARB for an EO number to clear smog if you go into production?
    The complete manifold looks sweet!
     
  7. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:35 PM
    #47
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    Wow, I have no idea...
    That's a long way down the road. I'm still just at the stage of designing and getting a prototype made so I can test it just to find out for sure whether or not it will actually work.

    I'm really linear... and only concentrate on properly negotiating each step one at a time. :)
     
  8. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:43 PM
    #48
    BrokenTusk

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    Also, I've heard testing for Carb status is 10 grand just to apply for the test. Hence why most companies never do it. Of course, that is just hearsay.
     
  9. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:48 PM
    #49
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    That's a fascinating concept...:)
    How did that idea come to you? And how hot do you think you can go before there might be diminishing returns? My first prototype is going to be 2 inches thick. That's big enough to be drilled to do double duty as a preheated fuel rail as it will sink heat directly off the head.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  10. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:48 PM
    #50
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    I heard that it was more, and the test samples are not returned.

    California sucks... but it can't stop you from selling them in other states.
    The spacer might fly under the radar, but the complete custom manifold is what has (or would have if I lived in a free state) me excited.
     
  11. Jul 18, 2013 at 10:59 PM
    #51
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    I do my best to have as little to do with the government as possible.
     
  12. Jul 18, 2013 at 11:16 PM
    #52
    BrokenTusk

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    Be sure to use fuel rated fittings it you venture that route.

    I'm a power engineer by occupation. We pre-heat fuel for massive 4 story boilers, why not preheat it for cars was my inspiration. I will start with 84 Celcius (Outlet Coolant Temp) and see what happens.

    I don't want to use exhaust high temps due to afterheat fire concerns once I shut the car off and the fuel rail would still be getting heated. Would also be an issue for you going through the spacer, though not AS big an issue.
    Me too.
     
  13. Jul 19, 2013 at 10:23 PM
    #53
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    Yeah, good thinking. Heat soak from the head at engine shut off might boil the fuel and cause vapor lock on the next startup. Please keep me posted on how your idea progresses. :thumbsup:

    Greg
     
  14. Jul 19, 2013 at 10:31 PM
    #54
    Krazie Sj

    Krazie Sj Resident Jackass

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    Sure...keep me in the dark you pecker head. :pout:

    Come get your damn T-Shirt!
     
  15. Jul 20, 2013 at 3:29 AM
    #55
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    Tusk said he was working on the effects of heated fuel.
    You didn't actually read the posts, did you? ;)
     
  16. Jul 20, 2013 at 12:09 PM
    #56
    BrokenTusk

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    lol, inside joke.
     
  17. Jul 20, 2013 at 12:30 PM
    #57
    Krazie Sj

    Krazie Sj Resident Jackass

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    Actually I read the entire thread. It's very interesting.

    That being said I had nothing productive to add to the discussion so I just left it at the inside joke that Tusky baby was referring to.

    :D
     
  18. Jul 20, 2013 at 6:35 PM
    #58
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    Good. I like humorous banter. ;)

    Went to the machine shop today to go over the design details for the tooter 2.7 intake manifold spacer... and it's all green lights.
    The date this project began has already been pegged at the beginning of this thread at July the 11th. So the elapsed time to a dyno testable prototype should be right around 3 weeks. :thumbsup:

    I decided to make a really thick 2 inch spacer, since there is no space restriction on the 2.7 like there is on the 6 cylinder engine. This is going to relocate the throttle body two inches to the right as you're looking at the engine from the front. The Injen intake lends itself to easy relocation because there are only two points of attachment, and one of them is the throttle body. It's basically a free floating intake with no forced points of location... perfect for a spacer test bed. :)

    [​IMG]

    The intake manifold runners are presently 17 inches long (from the orange gasket, to the white line where the runners meet the plenum).

    [​IMG]


    A 2 inch spacer will make runners 19 inches long for a increased length of 12%.

    The latest dyno run indicates that the engine's torque peak is presently at 3,300rpm. I'm thinking that the torque peak could possibly be relocated down to 3,000, or maybe into the high 2,000's. But only the dyno results will show where it actually ends up. Whether or not there will be an actual increase in torque is a totally open question. This will NOT be decided by endless empty baseless subjective conjecturing from "butt dynos"...

    ...but by REAL dyno numbers. :thumbsup:

    It's also possible that the spacer might not net any gains. If it doesn't... the charts will let everyone here know the truth, and that will be the end of this project and I'll simply move on to try out other ideas.

    But if the 2 inch spacer does prove by actual testing to offer documented low end gains, I'll have some made up and offer them for sale to anyone who wants one on their own engine. :)

    The spacers will not be anodized as that's just an unnecessary added cost that makes no difference in the actual performance of the spacer. Since I have a blasting booth, they will be stainless steel bead blasted to a uniform finish like this...

    [​IMG]

    ...and will readily accept any finish.

    They will have all of the necessary machined grooves to accept a regular stock O ring Toyota 2.7 intake manifold gasket similar to this and will come with one already on it.

    [​IMG]


    It will also come with all of the necessary longer bolts and bolt spacers to properly support the intake manifold in it's new position relative to the engine. I still need to figure out what hardware to get, but that will be easy to do when I actually have the prototype. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  19. Jul 20, 2013 at 10:22 PM
    #59
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Stainless? Why not aluminum? I'd be concerned about electrolysis, as well as expansion coefficient differences causing potential vacuum leaks.

    Aluminum is also a better heat conductor for using the spacer as a pre-heater.
    Stainless is horrible.
     
  20. Jul 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM
    #60
    tooter

    tooter [OP] play every day

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    I don't think you understand what stainless steel bead blasting is.

    [​IMG]

    The spacers are made out of aluminum... not stainless steel.

    Stainless steel is way to expensive, and because its so hard, it's really stressful on the CNC machine to mill.

    The stainless steel beads are just the blasting medium... what they're blasting is aluminum.

    [​IMG]

    Just like sand is used for sand blasting,

    [​IMG]

    ...except that the stainless steel beads act like tiny ball peen hammers beating on the aluminum surface to normalize it to a soft even matte finish which will readily accept anodizing or any other kind of coating you might want to apply. The stainless steel beads do not coat the surface. The surface remains aluminum. The beads just smooth out the surface.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
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