Total Chaos VS Camburg?

Wish I was able to afford the 2+ lt sounds so much better in every way then mid travel

 

Here's why we do uniballs on ALL Camburg lower arms and KINETIK 6100/Trophy trucks.

"All Camburg lower arms use FK 1” uniballs at the inner pivots as well as our KINETIK race trucks. Since the lower arms take the majority of the load, you want to use the best parts available. Cheaper polyurethane or delrin bushings have no business at these locations when something better is available. The uniballs allow for zero binding when the suspension cycles up and down, and has zero flex under braking so your geometry and alignment is always consistent. With Toyota trucks being aligned by their lower arm, a uniball setup also allows for a bind free adjustment and you’re able to torque all the bolts without putting it into a bind. Since the uniball spacers are 1.50” diameter, you have better clamping force in the frame mounts do to the increased surface area which keeps the holes from ovaling out over time unlike a small diameter sleeve used in a bushing. The added clamping area also reduces the chances of the alignment cams from moving during heavy off-road use."

A complete set of bushings and sleeves for lower arms retail for $85.
A complete set of uniballs and spacers for lower arms retail for $320.

If we had lower arm bushings in our kit, the retail price would be $250 cheaper than it is now because of the price difference solely on those parts.

- Scott @ Camburg

 

This is correct!

JT

 

JT et al...
Great discussions guys and very helpful! I am new member but been reading for years so I know I'll get straight answers to my below questions.
I have had a TC UCA and 3" lift on my 02 4wd for over 10 years with no problems at all but and am now considering a long-travel system for better articulation in the rocks - I'm not a go-fast. I am also wanting a couple inches more of ground clearance. So my plan is to increase tire/wheel size from 32" tires/16" rims to...whatever combo gives best ride characteristics and least problems with the planned long travel system. This is my daily driver as well for now. I'm a bit worried about ride/road chara's with the xtra 3.5" per side stance increase with most systems - have not seen solutions to minimize the crabbing by increasing the rear stance (e.g. spacers or different backspaced rims?). I was going to discuss with James at SDTruck (Built Right), but thought I'd throw it out here to hear opinions from been-there-done-that builders! I go to most of the BITD races and am really impressed with Camburg's approach and ingenuity. Yet TC and Built Right have got it right as well; and now I see JT's "Baja Kits" which looks solid too. Some insight into the pros and cons of the above system would be really helpful! Thanks in advance for your (or any other reader's) opinions!
Mike
FYI - below is my rig:

 

I have the +3.5" chaos kit (had it for the past 4 years). Since moving to Utah this past spring I don't do a lot of high speed stuff but the kit offers amazing articulation. You get used to the body roll (especially if you have a LT rear end).

I get a lot of comments/ questions from Jeepers in the local mtns. They say that this "desert" suspension does not belong in the mtns. There jaws drop when they see how much articulation I have with both front and rear long travel.

I have not broken an axle I have 255/85/16 (33") tires. I also dont have a front locker (don't see the point). I have not met anyone who has broken an axle unless they have some ridiculous tire size (+35"). For the rear end I have 1.5" wheel spacers (Mainly so my tires dont rub on my bypasses).

Going long travel allows more articulation and will keep your tires planted to the ground. Once you go long travel you will never want to go back!

 

Thanks for the reply killa! Really appreciate it!
Yeah, the articulation you show is what I'm looking for and,at least on your 2011, the crab effect is not too evident. 1.5" rear wheel spacers seem to work well in that regard for your rig. My 2002 does not have as deep wheel wells so the extra 3.5" is really pronounced which it's why I'd like opinions on reducing that front/rear stance bias. Can't imagine putting 3"+ spacers on but thinking that maybe1.5-2" spacers with a rim with positive backspacing to make up the difference would even it out. Unfortunately for the clearance I need to replace the quarter panels in front - and maybe modify the rears as well. Heavy sigh.
How are the road characteristics as related to wandering? I get that you have to deal with more yaw and roll, which yeah, I would need to get used to. Is alignment a constant struggle?
The dual shock setup looks great! I've wondered though if it is really necessary if your not going to be doing 60 mph over whoops? My intention is to put either King or Fox 2.5 R/R coilovers with matching rear R/R's. Unless I can be convinced that spending an extra $3K will make a proportional difference, you know?
Hey, thanks again for answering - your input has helped a lot!

 

I have the Chaos kit on my truck for a couple years now. Rides like a dream, once shocks are tuned and nicely aligned. Road manners are good nothing as bad as what people used to say. I ran 285/75/16 Combo for a while and it was great! Only downside is finding tires in that size is hard and expensive hence why I moved up to a 35x15". As Far as the rear goes getting wheel with bigger offset helps but not help also because its also widening the front too. Wheel spacers is the only solution, I have had many friends including myself in the past have used spacers keep them tight and check them and it will be fine. I upgraded to a matching tundra axle in the rear which is the perfect match but it required major surgery to install. Either kit you go you will be impress and they are are pretty good, chaos , camburg , solo etc... Baja kits does not make one for our trucks.
Dual shocks is only really necessary when going high speeds and for long runs. You will be fine with the Single Fox coilover.

 

On the front I am only running a fox 2.5"x8" coilover. The rear I have 16" Fox triple bypasses with 4.5" bumpstops. If you were really good at bypass tuning you could get away with not having bumpstops if you had triple bypasses. For my current use of the truck, I dont see the need of getting the secondary bypass for the front.

The road characteristics are great. Once it is aligned it does not wander.. stays straight. If you really beat on the truck/ jump it you will always fight alignment. Some guys on here weld there cam alignment tabs which I dont recommend. For the most part my alignment stays true. I know Midas used to have a lifetime alignment deal ($200) that might be a worthy investment if you are a stickler on your alignment.

If you are concerned about overall stance, Tire and wheel selection are key. I had to get new wheels after I installed my Chaos kit. I only had about 1/2" of room between my tire and weld on spindle gusset. So my method wheels have 4.5" of back spacing. I am running 255/85/16 tires because I don't want my tires sticking out from the fenders by a mile. Having rear fiberglass bedsides also helps with the "look" if you did not want to run wheel spacers in the rear. My truck looked mis-proportioned when I only had front long travel and stock rear fenders. Total Bro-dozer!

Be prepared to spend ~$6K for the front with 4wd. Add another ~$5K for the rear if you want that long travel as well.

Hope this helps.