1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Towing/pulling attachment options. Theory, input please

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by SportyTuRD, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. Jun 10, 2010 at 5:10 AM
    #1
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Member:
    #25973
    Messages:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    A fellow engineer and I were discussing best possible locations for pulling using ropes/chains (no tounge weight) just pulling...This theory came up while he was dragging his long gravel driveway...could also be thought for getting stuck, moving heavey items, etc,...

    He is making a claim that an ideal location to attach a chain to "pull" would be to the rear axel given that no brake lines etc, were being pinched or in the way...Going by pure physics...

    Reason being by attaching to the axel will add no stress to suspension and the torque provided by the drive train will be directly applied to the pull. Not passing through suspension that is already compressed and through the frame eventually to the pull... Now your frame and body are still just "along for the ride"

    His final thought was if i could weld a tow hook to his Diff housing that would be perfect...
     
  2. Jun 10, 2010 at 5:50 AM
    #2
    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Member:
    #5392
    Messages:
    2,543
    Gender:
    Male
    Northern Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    Tundra Rock Warrior
    Past ride - 3" OME 885s&Shocks/ TSB 1.5AAL/ AX184 Rims 285 Firestone destination ATs/ 2 Shallow mount P310s in Supercrew Box - Punch 601s, Beefed up Hunter Brush guard, Tint, Fog light mod, AFE Drop in, AC and Fog light mods, scangauge
    LOL, no way pull from the diff housing...let us know how that works out if he does weld a hook on there.

    frame, ie hitch...ie attached to fram. i recommend pulling going forward not reversing due to how the gears are
     
  3. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:09 AM
    #3
    HMA

    HMA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Member:
    #34908
    Messages:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Hal
    Bainbridge, Ga
    Vehicle:
    '10 Tacoma 4x4 Surveying Machine
    I'm not an engineer, but I took physics and statics in college. I believe your buddy is correct. Just look at the back of a tractor. While you are looking at the tractor, notice how thick the metal back there is. If you move the moment to the center of the diff and plan on pulling or snatching big stuff, you had better add a significant amount of reinforcement between the wheel bearings. Or buy one of these: http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/rendsample_trucks.aspx
     
  4. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:20 AM
    #4
    EEtaco

    EEtaco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Member:
    #13917
    Messages:
    244
    Gender:
    Male
    North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 V6 Prerunner
    5100's @1.75
    Your friends theory sounds right, but I can only think it would work in situations where you have a fixed axle. Since the axle isn't fixed I'd be worried that axle wrap and the frictional forces causing the read end & drivetrain to "buck" horizontally instead of vertically where the allowed travel is would cause some problems.

    I'm no ME, but that's just my visualization of it all.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:25 AM
    #5
    Brunes

    Brunes abides.

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Member:
    #7011
    Messages:
    17,641
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Rotorhead
    DC or New Jersey - Depends on the day....
    Vehicle:
    08 Red/Graphite and Satin Black
    Inside: Tint, Wet Okole 1/2 Piped Red/Black Covers, Black Weathertech Digital Fit Mats, URD Short Throw w/ TWM Weighted Knob, USA Spec iPod adapter. Outside: 4300K Retro w/ Angel Eyes and Red Shrouds, 5000K Blazer Fog Light Retrofit, Debadge, Bed Locking Handle, Satin Black Rims Performance: TRD/Steigmeier Blower w/ 2.7 Pulley. 668 Injectors and 320 LPH AEM Fuel pump. URD UCON and 7th Injector. DTLT Headers, URD Y-Pipe, Wicked Flow Muffler. Suspension: Both: OME Shocks Front: 886X's and TC UCAs Rear: Dakars Armor: Relentless Front Bumper Relentless High Clearance Rear w/ Tire/Rotopax Swing Out Relentless Front, Mid, and TCase skids BAMF Diff Skid Recovery and Spares: Fullsize Spare Tire 2x2 gal Rotopax 1x1 gal Rotopax 1x1 gal Water Rotopax Warn 9.5XP-S Winch Hi-Lift Extreme 60" Ironman Off-Road Recovery Kit
    This is more or less what I was thinking. The driveline and axle housing are made to take a load thru the suspension- Not directly on them. The difference between the pumpkin and frame/hitch is pretty limited....IDK how the math would bear out but it seems like you wouldn't lose that much by towing how everone else does imo.
     
  6. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:44 AM
    #6
    Danosabre

    Danosabre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Member:
    #24388
    Messages:
    1,042
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    Gardner,Ma
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    Extang Trifold bed cover,DDM 55W 6000k HID, maglight, Vent visors
    I'm not an engineer, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.. :D

    Your axle is only attached to the truck by the suspension. If you solid mount the axle then maybe?

    Have you ever seen a tractor pull contest? Does he think they are doing it wrong?
     
  7. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:52 AM
    #7
    swise

    swise TRIFECTA!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Member:
    #24716
    Messages:
    371
    Gender:
    Male
    ohio
    Vehicle:
    08 4x4 dbl cab, TRD offroad
    If you put a chain around the rear axle of a tractor and try to pull a heavy load, the tractor will flip over backwards. Not saying a truck would, though. Why just not put the hitch in the receiver and hook chain up to the ball?
     
  8. Jun 10, 2010 at 6:55 AM
    #8
    Caddmannq

    Caddmannq MotoNerd

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Member:
    #8917
    Messages:
    487
    Gender:
    Male
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 PreRunner TRD Sport DC LB
    Undercover toneau
    One of the things that happens in any gearcase is deflection under load. In a well designed case the deflection will be very low, not causing a misalignment of the gears. Misalignment of the hypoid gears in a rear axle is very bad for them.

    Any stress applied to the axle housing at a point not of the original design could cause undue deflection and large misalignment between the gears.

    Now if the rear axle was properly trussed and reinforced against the attached load, then I would say that, dragging from the rear axle is the most direct load path & therefore strongest.

    That does not mean "best" though, as you would have less traction.

    Dragging from the hitch causes a weight transfer (largely due to suspension deflection and leverage of the chassis over the axle as a fulcrum) which increases ground load of the rear wheels and therefore increases traction.

    This is unlike a tractor, which has no suspension. On a tractor you must pull from the lowest possible point. If you pull from a point above the rear axle centerline, you do increase traction due to weight transfer but you also risk lifting the front wheels suddenly, whereas the truck would first "squat" on the suspension.
     
  9. Jun 10, 2010 at 7:00 AM
    #9
    swise

    swise TRIFECTA!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Member:
    #24716
    Messages:
    371
    Gender:
    Male
    ohio
    Vehicle:
    08 4x4 dbl cab, TRD offroad
    that sounds good.

    what about using that little hook by the front skid plate and pulling backwards?
     
  10. Jun 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM
    #10
    NetMonkey

    NetMonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Member:
    #8536
    Messages:
    1,725
    Gender:
    Male
    Geogetown, TX
    Vehicle:
    2010, 4x4, DC, off-road, shortbed, automatic
    Toytec Ultimate Lift @ 3", Mickey Thompson MTZ's 285/75/16, Moto Metal 955b, rear 2" ALL, Marlin Crawler sliders
    mythbusters did an episode on that and they totally disproved that.
     
  11. Jun 10, 2010 at 8:07 AM
    #11
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Member:
    #38505
    Messages:
    3,228
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dave
    virginia
    Vehicle:
    08 Tacoma 4x4
    Hitch and wiring, aux back-up light, rear strobe lights, radio and underseat sub.
    It seems to me, if it was a good idea to pull with an axle, they would have tow hooks on them instead of the frame.
    It would have to be designed that way in the first place. I think the frame is a better place to pull. It keeps the lines farther away from the wheels.

    My old 9n ford had a fixed drawbar on the rear axle, and a 3pt hitch, but the frame is part on the axle. No suspension.
     
  12. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:08 AM
    #12
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Member:
    #25973
    Messages:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    Our theory would say that the body/frame follow the axel, and with no load it is free to move.

    Tractor pulls also need a quick access points... As far as a farm tractor everything comes off the axel...even the seat.

    So aside from lack of easy accessability it in theory should be an ideal location...And since we are using ropes and chain you wont be loosing much traction there is no "tounge weight"
     
  13. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:32 AM
    #13
    dogbite

    dogbite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Member:
    #34054
    Messages:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    Utah
    Vehicle:
    '10 double cab TRD OR
    OME lift, Leer shell, Beefed sliders, Extra 12V outlets for rear bench
    There are videos all over youtube of the axel being yanked out when people pull from it or the diff. It is not engineered for those stresses.

    ONLY PULL from the FRAME.

    Hitch balls and pins are not rated for the stresses of pulling someone who is stuck. Those balls often become airborne missiles in such situations.
     
  14. Jun 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM
    #14
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Member:
    #25973
    Messages:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    the you tube videos also show it being pulled sideways and everything else...wrappign chins around the end close to tires and what not.
     
  15. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:10 AM
    #15
    borderbrat

    borderbrat Watching Chris4x4 o.O

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Member:
    #3480
    Messages:
    2,486
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Victoria BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2008, Black sand pearl, SR5, 4X4
    PIAA fogs, led "puddle" lights, bed lights, in cab 115V, Toyota Devil emblem, Randy Ellis light bar with Hella Black Magics, OME 885 and Dakar leaf springs OME shock all round, 2.5 Gal OBA system with air horns, iPod adapter, scangauge on blend mount, magnaflow catback, bike fork mounts, tinted 2009 tails.
    The steel on your axel is thiner than the steel of the frame or hitch. The axel has not been designed to pull from. Don't over think it just use what has been provided. If you weld a hook to the axel, puling a heavy load with it could end up in serious damage.
     
  16. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:31 AM
    #16
    brutalguyracing

    brutalguyracing BIG DADDY

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Member:
    #19000
    Messages:
    24,038
    Gender:
    Male
    F.U> GUYZ
    broken mods
    Do not pull from your axle period.....
    Unless you want to replace it....and alot of other stuff......
    End of story
     
  17. Jun 10, 2010 at 10:42 AM
    #17
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Member:
    #25973
    Messages:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually the axel is made from cast iron in most cases...It is going to be alot tougher.

    as far as using what has been provided that was the reason for the "THEORY" his reese hitch rusted off and he needed a place to hook up his drag to fix his drive way...We arn't talking about pulling 10,000 lbs here

    Why? you make a statement without back up...hence the point of the thread...



    Just a discussion...I am not going to do this but we were simpky theorizing..






    .
     
  18. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:45 AM
    #18
    SplitDecision

    SplitDecision Phones Ringin Dude

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Member:
    #35741
    Messages:
    407
    First Name:
    Haywood Jablowme
    NY
    Vehicle:
    Silver TRD OR
    Bilstein 5100x4, Truxedo lo pro QT,Hid Retro,2011 painted grill,Alpine head unit,Foglight mod,NFAB steps
    Pulling from the axle only On a heavy load would put too much stress on the suspension components and holders. I would think that it would also cause a loss of traction. Pulling from the hitch/frame cause down pressure and added traction. For pulling a drag type driveway leveling device I would think the lower you had it hooked the better that would work out. I use a piece of chain link fence with some cinder blocks and works great. I tow it with the tractor though.
     
  19. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:55 AM
    #19
    SportyTuRD

    SportyTuRD [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Member:
    #25973
    Messages:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    That is the argument though...it wont put any stress on the suspension...Suspension is what attaches the axel to the frame...with no load on the frame you wouldn't have any stress...
     
  20. Jun 10, 2010 at 11:58 AM
    #20
    Loiman20

    Loiman20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Member:
    #30792
    Messages:
    76
    Gender:
    Male
    utah
    Vehicle:
    double cab long bed
    BFG All Terrains 265/75/16 bull bar guard nerf bars 2 inch leveling kit grillcraft sport grill "toyota" emblem
    After doing my aal I would never hook it to the rear Axel. It's only held on by the leafs and The u bolts. I think it would rip off your rear?
     
To Top