Towing with a 3.5L V6 6-speed manual (3rd gen)

Hi all, I've had a chance to read through several third gen towing threads, and it seems that most of the feedback is focused around the 3.5L V6/6 speed auto combination. The overall sense I get from these threads is that towing much over 2500lb is relatively taxing, possibly undersirable, but doable. I haven’t read many examples in the 4-6000lb range.

I'm looking specifically for feedback from people running the 3.5L V6/manual trans, (third generation) preferably with larger loads.

In my case, I have a double axle car hauler with an older flat fender Willys. I estimate this combo to be right about 4400-4500lb, based on tags from the trailer and weighing my jeep. There is also the rare chance I might need to tow my newer jeep, and this combo is right about 6000lb.

I rarely tow, in fact I haven't towed the Willys in over two years, but I do have this combination and if I replace my current truck with a Tacoma it does need to be able to pull it. I'm not expecting effortless towing, but it does need to be safe (able to handle the load at speed and stop—I do have four wheel electric brakes but they only do so much) and be able to hold a reasonable speed on the highway without feeling like I'm killing the truck trying to maintain speed. Mileage isn't that important, but it would be nice if we're talking 12mpg (like I currently get towing) not 8mpg.

The towing I have done has been anything from local trips (less than 100 miles) to cross country trips, which I’ve done three times, well I guess four if you count a fairly small U-haul I once towed. With my current setup I can generally hold 10mph over the speed limit without issue, but I keep it at or below 70 just to give myself the illusion of being safe. Big steep grades like the one on I70 leading into Eisenhower tunnel are about the only thing I’ve ever had issues with, and even there it was no big deal – Ok I could only do 30mph for the last few miles but that’s no big deal really. I’ve driven that pass only twice in my life; I live in NW Washington. I can only think of one or two other passes I've hit in the country that were as taxing and they were much shorter. I can live with wasting an extra 10 minutes getting up a couple of passes every few years.

So to kick off this discussion I wanted to share some info I dug up on my current truck (which I consider totally adequate for the job) and how it compares to the Tacoma (double cab off road manual trans in particular).

My truck: 2002 Chevrolet 4x4, 1500, 4.8 V8, 5 speed manual, 4.10 gears, 265/75R16 tires, standard cab/6.5' bed. Below are the stats for each, Chevy, followed by Tacoma DCSB-OR:

Wheelbase: 119, 127.4
Track: 65/66, 63/63.2
front brakes: 12" rotor, 12.55" rotor
rear brakes: 11.6" drum*, 10" drum
tow rating: 6300lb, 6400lb
curb weight: 4750lb, 4445lb
GVWR: 6100lb, 5600lb
payload: 1350lb, 1155lb
GCWR: 11,000lb, 11,360lb
Rated hp 280hp@5200, 278hp@6000
Rated tq 295lb-ft@4600, 265lb-ft@4600

*my chevy has 12.8" rear discs but the newer version of my truck 'upgraded' to drums so I used these for comparison.

Gearing (chevy, tacoma)
Diff: 4.10, 4.30
1, 4.02, 3.98
2, 3.21, 2.02
3, 1.49, 1.32
4, 1.00, 1.00
5, 0.73, 0.85
6, —--, 0.71

Final drive gearing (diff x transmission gearing)
(chevy - tacoma)
1, 16.48, 17.11
2, 13.16, 8.69
3, 6.11, 5.68
4, 4.10, 4.30
5, 2.99, 3.66
6, —--, 3.05

It really is remarkable just how big these little Toyotas have become. (My last three were all 1984-87 models with the 22R or RE). Look at just how close it is in so many stats to my full-size - and the Taco is quite a bit longer.

So looking at the above it makes me think from a safety standpoint assuming the springs/shocks aren't too soft it should do about the same as the Chevy. The weight and size is so similar and the Toyota has a longer wheelbase which should go a long ways towards maintaining stability on the road.

As far as trailer and typical load cases, I’m figuring truck weight plus 100 for a canopy, 350 for me and my family combined and 250lb stuff in the bed. With a 4500lb trailer that puts me at 5600GVW and 9650GCW (OK). With a 6000lb trailer it puts me at 5750 and 11,150 so technically I’d need to leave a few kids or some stuff behind.

I did add airbags and E rated tires to my Chevy and I think they helped stabilize it a bit. I might do the same with the Toyota if I decide it needs it, though hopefully this time around I can find a decent C range tire, but they seem to be getting harder to find. A load dist hitch is also something I’d definitely consider if I need it (but I haven’t with the Chevy).

This may sound a little over the top but I have a little excel program I put together years ago to calculate loads and speeds under different conditions if you have a dyno chart for the motor. I’m still looking at numbers but so far it doesn’t really look like I’m giving up a lot with the Toyota vs my Chevy. In fact, with the tall 2nd gear and closer gear splits between 2nd-6th it actually seems to do almost as well ‘on paper’ and favorable in a few extreme cases like the I70/Eisenhower grade that forces me into 2nd gear at about 30mph in the Chevy. (It can go faster but you have to redline it to do it – and third is just too tall), where as the tall geared 2nd in the Tacoma that is good to over 60mph means that it could run 30, 40 or 60mph (at near redline). Granted it’s nearly WOT to do so at any speed, and I'm not certain my load math is right, but this is an extreme/unusual case for me.

For the more usual case of towing slightly uphill at relatively low elevation and into the wind both ways at 65mph, it looks like the Toyota should be able to hold 4th or 5th and occasionally 6th gear. (Compared to my Chevy that holds 4th OK and occasionally 5th, which is very comparable to 6th gear in the Tacoma – 4th is nearly identical final drive). For those with autos, keep in mind the final drive 6th gear in the MT is not even as tall as your 5th gear! (5th in the auto is about 12% taller than 6th in the MT).

So anyway those are my thoughts, but I’m looking for real world actual feedback from those that have the 3.5L V6/6speed MT combo. What do you tow? Where do you tow? What speed do you typically run? What avg MPG do you get while towing? Does it sound like a Tacoma would be adequate for my very occasional towing needs?

Thanks!

 

I towed about 4500 pounds a week or two ago. double axle car trailer with a car on top. Total of the trailer and car was 4500lbs. I also had a jack, jackstands, and tools in the car.

Safety stuff I added to the truck: Trailer brake controller, Sumosprings, and Weigh safe hitch (to measure tongue weight)

I ran this setup with no weight distribution hitch and I feel the truck did fine. This was my first tow not to mention solo in rain and windy conditions. I kept it at 60-65mph. I have an auto but the 4th gear in auto and manual I believe are the same ratio. The sumosprings kept the rear level and stable. My tongue weight was set to 500 pounds (within 10-15% trailer weight). I averaged 12.8mpg over 185 miles of some hills but mostly flat.

 

install that brake controller and you should be fine.

 

Alot of info in there and nice research. I've only towed up to about 3k lbs with my 2nd gen auto. Towed that good. Noticed quite a bit more fuel consumption at speeds above 65-70. Never did long trips, and would always say i would get a manual if I did it often enough. But, What I was going to suggest is maybe bringing your trailer down to the dealer with the normal load you would be towing and see if they would let you try it out on their truck. If that is the needs you have for the truck, the dealer should oblige. Otherwise free bump for you good sir and good luck.

 

Unless you like the smell of burnt clutches and replacing them often, I would not tow with a manual. You will be okay on flat roads, but once you get to hills, or parking/maneuvering on inclines, you'll be sorry.
I learned the hard way...

 

I towed with my manual and I did just fine. Yes it wears out the clutch a little faster, but really, I towed across the country. It's hardly a big deal.

 

I tow a boat with a manual pretty often. I explain it to anyone who asks is you have to actually drive the truck. You can't just go through the gears and be all good. You've got to anticipate hills, slower traffic, hazards, etc. Also, slowing the truck with the clutch vs. just the brakes makes a huge difference in control. Some folks, from what I understand, just move into neutral and hit the brakes, this is essentially a lose of over all "control" of the vehicle. To each their own I guess, but I drive like this all the time, towing or not.

Also, for the weight you're wanting to tow a brake controller makes all the difference as many have stated.

(also, I'm a little 2.7L RC, I don't belong in your thread, but I thought I'd give you my perspective )

 

I believe you are correct that 4th is the same in both trucks (1:1), but the rear gearing is different between the two trucks which makes for an unbalanced performance comparison

 

do you ever notice the sumosprings in regular daily driving without a load?

 

I would not want to tow 6000 pounds cross country but if I had no other choice, I would not lose sleep over it. For the random trips you describe, seems like the Tacoma, manual or auto will be fine. Personally I prefer and automatic.

 

Thanks for the feedback so far, please keep it coming. I definitely plan to get a brake controller! No doubt in my mind on that, though finding something unobtrusive looks to be a bit of a challenge.

I find it almost strange that the cab on the Toyota is so big and yet the interior is in a way more cramped than our 2005 accord (which is fine but not overly spacious). I saw some threads where people put the controller in the unused tray-hole on the left. Another with a fairly expensive controller that uses a remote mounted knob. I thought that was pretty neat.

I'm a bit curious about the comment on "smoking your clutch". Towing is no doubt harder on the clutch but seems like it shouldn't be a big deal if driven properly I would hope or is that just wishful thinking? Going on 145k on my Chevy clutch (knock on wood..). Just adding up the numbers I guess I have towed about 14,000 miles with it in total over the last 14 years. Most of it highway though. I don't have any more cross county trips planned but who's to say what the future holds.

I guess my other (1980's) Toyotas had needed clutches around 120-140k running oversized tires (31-35" range with stock gears). I wonder if they've achieved longer service intervals on the new trucks. For example my Chevy brakes lasted around 120k (and had a TON of pad left but my rotors were rusting apart) where as my 1980's Toyotas were lucky to go 50-60k between brake jobs.

I haven't looked yet but is there an easy way to run 2-low for difficult parking lot maneuvering with a trailer? On my Chevy I just pull the 4wd fuse (for the axle disconnect) but it does have a manual 4wd shifter. If such a fuse exists on the Toyota I wonder if you can still shift the tcase with it out. Or if you unplug (or wire in a disconnect) to the CAD will the tcase still shift into low? Or do you need to wire in a second switch to lie to the computer so it thinks the front axle is engaged? I do miss the old manual hubs for sure.

 

The only time you are going to put a little more stress on the clutch is starting in 1st gear, or backing up. Even then, if you know what you are doing, its a non issue. You'll know if you are slipping too much. The 6 spd has a nice low 1st gear. Reverse will be the issue, but you could drop in to low range if needed.

 

I put my brake controller in the jpg attached. It is a redarc elite controller. After it is calibrated, it proportionally brakes as much as your vehicle brakes if its in Auto mode. You can put it in manual mode and have full control of the trailer brakes as well. The harder you brake, the more red the LED gets. It is a pretty neat system. You do have to be handy with a dremel if you want to mount in this location but youll only need to dremel the blank switch plate and nothing else.

I do, I actually feel the rear is raised a tad higher. I believe most people say it raises the rear end 5/8" and it does feel stiffer in the back for sure unloaded.

Got it. I believe the manual comes with a 4.3 and the auto comes with a 3.9 so I would of assumed it would of been better for towing gearing wise. But you are correct, we cant compare apples to apples here.

 

That redarc looks great, really great. Any issues ordering that from the US? Was it a direct plug and play with the trailer brake controller harness?

OK, dumb question--but is the Tacoma even wired for a trailer brake controller? (My Chevy came with the harness in the glove box, all ready to go plug and play, but I haven't looked into this on the Tacoma yet.)

 

Reverse is a bitch on the 6sp unless you can back a trailer going 20mph. Other wise downshift as needed. Ive towed an 89 ext cab pickup on my 2klb carhauler before no issues...i put my 1st gen ext cab on the trailer and it sagged way too mich for comfort

 

I had no issues ordering from the US but I ordered on Ebay. It is pricier than others but with its Auto function and mounting, I was willing to pay a little extra and I am glad I did.
You can buy a Tekonsha 3017-S harness. One side will plug directly into the OEM harness near the driverside kick panel and the other end will need to be spliced into the Redarc harness. I believe I had to match color for color and all was well.

 

I tow a TT that weighs in around 5k+5.5k lbs loaded in the Sierras. My truck is an auto and it will maintain 55-60mph in the passes, but I'm not afraid to run it up to redline in 2nd to maintain speed. I use a weight distribution hitch and I'm usually going 60-65mph in the flats. The truck tows comfortably at this speed. Gas mileage is 10-11mpg when towing and it is impacted more by the profile of the trailer than the weight.

Trucks with the towing package are prewired for brake controllers.

 

Good info, thanks. Is yours a third gen?

 

2nd gen....2012

 

I towed about 4500 lbs with my tacoma 6 speed. I was loaded up with camping stuff, the Girfriend and 2 dogs. I took it up an over Tioga Pass into Yosemite National Park. It is very well, even over 9,000 feet. The only trouble was when traffic on the pass stoped on the steepest spot, almost at the top. The clutch got warm, to say the least. I should have put in 4x4 Low to get over the hill. Besides that, even the stock crappy brakes did OK, however you have to be very conservative and let the truck do what it wants to, dont force it to go faster than it wants too, and give a bunch of room to stop.