Toyota Ammonia Engine

What about battery disposal and storage problems?


Materials for these batteries need to be mined , right? This can’t be good for the environment

 

I hate diesel- stinky to follow, the Bucky balls it produces are bad for you to inhale, and now I’m seeing empty DEF boxes starting to litter the desert.

 

There is a place for EV. A small one percentage wise.

The folks that rant EV will save the world are mostly clueless regarding the full lifecycle of a vehicle and the process of power production

 

New diesels don’t have much of an odor compared to a 1988 model. What the hell is Bucky Balls?

 

Particulates, I've seen that with them being filtered finer and finer, they are penetrating skin rather than just inhaled.

In the end all combustion is bad, hydrogen or clean electric is ideal. Well, really bicycles are ideal.

I'm all in on hybrids now, just regular hybrids, our siennas now get better mileage than the 2012 corolla.

 

Perhaps a picture will aid the debunked misconceptions.

Look at the amount of effort and money being targeted into addressing this battery recycling issue now. A lot of $$ will be made in this new industry - despite the fact that Li batteries are a step towards some better tech.

On the overall lifecycle pollution issue. This has been settled several times over. I like this graphic. it is easier to understand than most of the raw research.

* There are other NEWER studies, this being from 2021 - but I like this graphic as is quite succinct in illustrating the comparison.
(Note that more time = increased benefit for EVs over IC and Hybrids).

(I'll leave it to readers to look for other studies...)

Note that:
- the battery negatives (Production, weight, mining, recycling) will continue improving.
- The % of renewables on the grid will continue increasing, thereby lowering the pollution coming from Electricity production.

While the issues with IC will continue largely as they are currently.

We are transitioning from early adopters to mainstream. EVs with normal controls (without techy BS and massive screens), EVs with extended ranges (rather than 1.5 sec 0-60 acceleration times) are coming. Many from new entrants who are more capable of making a profit.
This is where the incumbents will have their lunch eaten...

 

It depends, one says is down the other says it up. Batteries are being recycled not just disposed of. You would be amazed as what they are being used for in your daily life. Ford is not dropping electric trucks.

 

Umm might want to try something not sourced from Rivian.

 

“Ford Slashes Battery Plant Output As EV Adoption Slows”

https://jalopnik.com/ford-slashes-battery-plant-output-as-ev-adoption-slows-1851042005

 

https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas-1690-rule-the-case-for-hybrids/

Press release from Toyota, makes the most sense.

At the same time, Toyota wants to make money, and they rely on volume for that. So making 90 hybrids instead of allocating one EV makes sense.

 

Ford is one of the incumbents.
Ford is not structured to move fast or for efficient operations. Incumbents have repeatedly considered spinning off their EV operations in order to survive.
- I am afraid many incumbents will not survive the shift as I mentioned above. Ford (and GM, Stellantis, etc.) are the Nokia sticking to making flip phones in the light of rising adoption of smart phones. Bill ford and Mary Barra have acknowledged their inability to shift to a new mode of production coming from very nimble competitors.
Plus they are loosing their best minds to: guess who? EV manufacturers...

Can the grid handle EVs?

I charged our EV fully from lovely sunshine falling on my roof today... I did not extract one single electron from the grid. (therefore I did not pay a penny for the energy... (Yes - this is not quite true as I paid for the solar panels... but it will be true in a handful of years.)

BUT even if I did pull electrons from the grid, this is not the difficulty... Increased demand is not as bad as the chicken littles out in the world make it out to be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

This guy seems to have some credibility on TW - so I'll use his take on this. He does a good job on this too...

 

My reason for my post

https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/

 

Ha! Good one ace - you caught me...

Did you read the text? I pointed the fact that there are other studies - but I do quite like the graphic presentation of this; hence the use here.

It is easier to believe what you think rather than looking for real data. You don't have to believe this graph, no skin off my nose. But maybe it will make you curious about what the real state of things may be...

 

Cool setup with solar panels. What does solar panels cost? (I have no idea so that’s why I asking) What goes into making the solar panel?

Still have to take in account getting the materials for batteries and that much of it comes from slave labor in 3rd world countries.

I would have no problem owning a Tesla. Electric has its place. To expect everything to be replaced by electric is a bit out of reach at the moment. Heavy duty industry electric is no where near close to replace diesel.

 

I’m just sensitive to the smell from working with heavy equipment I guess- but you are probably right about those diesels that have newer emissions controls- reason why there’s now DEF box trash in the desert.

Bucky balls (Buckminsterfullerene) is a cool looking molecule - like a soccer ball - made up of 60 carbon atoms- they are relatively heavy and fall to the ground in short time when emitted by a diesel engine and are not water soluble so they persist and can cause lung diseases if inhaled.

 

Toyota CEO Akio Toyodo was not booted out, he resigned on purpose to let more forward thinking leaders to take the helm as CEO - Toyodo will become Chairman of the board.

For many who travel long distances and/or need lower priced vehicles hybrids are better than pure EVs and that’s why hybrid sales are surging now. Many are waiting on improvements in battery technology.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/amid-rise-of-evs-a-hybrid-surge/

https://fortune.com/2023/01/26/toyota-ceo-to-step-aside-welcomes-new-generation-of-leadership/amp/

As far as whether the grid handle the changeover to EVs, it can’t handle a big surge/changeover to EVs right now. The power plants, grid and charging infrastructure are not there for significant increases in EVs. And those who cannot afford EVs certainly can’t afford a rooftop solar/battery installation.
I’m a member of IEEE and this is an excellent study of where we are with EVs. I believe letting the market drive the swapover to EVs, as costs come down and battery technology improves they will take over at a pace that can more easily be managed by the grid infrastructure and charging station improvements and additional electric power plants required.
Note that the cheaper gas plants still pollute so I look forward to the new generation of nuclear power plants to come online. The IEEE report:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/files/52329/The EV Transition.final.pdf

 

not to mention losing 36k per electric vehicle sold does not help

 

The hype surrounding EV is just that along with a good dose of BS. The technology is cool and some aspects are great. However, the cost benefit analysis is horrible.
The "Carbon Footprint" (if you buy into that nonsense) is huge on EV and then we have the disposal issues and never mind the whoops my Li battery pack just went up in smoke.
I am all for change, and I can see there will come a time when we have a real alternative to the ICE, or perhaps a viable fuel alternative for an ICE.
Consumers are voting with their wallets and the EV sales show it. People who thought they were being Environmentally friendly have realized they were were lied to.