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TPMS: How many wheels?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by u4icstargazer, May 2, 2011.

  1. May 2, 2011 at 9:04 AM
    #1
    u4icstargazer

    u4icstargazer [OP] Member

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    Finally got my 'summer' tires & Ultra Maverick wheels (with new TPMS modules) on my '10 Taco ...
    Of Course, the TPMS modules had to be 'autheticated' by the dealership to the tune of $85.

    What are the chances that the truck will recognize the old OEM wheels with the snow tires on them when I go to switch back in November??
    The service lady here didn't know, but guessed it would be another $85 every time I switched ??!!

    Has anyone gone thru this before??
     
  2. May 2, 2011 at 9:22 AM
    #2
    jhodge83

    jhodge83 Any dog under 50# is a cat and cats are useless... Moderator

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    wat?
    IIRC, the TPMS will only hold the codes for X number of TPMS sensors. 09+ only uses 4 sensors and the 08- used 5 sensors
     
  3. May 2, 2011 at 9:27 AM
    #3
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    I think you can purchase a tool that allows you to reprogram your truck to the sensors. If you'll be doing the swap twice a year, saving $85 each time would pay for it in a hurry. I'll look for it but hopefully someone will chime in with the name of the programmer in the mean time.
     
  4. May 2, 2011 at 2:35 PM
    #4
    u4icstargazer

    u4icstargazer [OP] Member

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    Ya, I definitely think the black tape over the dash light will be the way to go.

    Won't be driving very fast with those studded snow tires anyway!!


    Thanks guys
     
  5. May 3, 2011 at 7:18 AM
    #5
    jhodge83

    jhodge83 Any dog under 50# is a cat and cats are useless... Moderator

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    wat?
    i've been ignoring mine for almost 3 years...
     
  6. May 3, 2011 at 7:55 AM
    #6
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    Hitch and wiring, aux back-up light, rear strobe lights, radio and underseat sub.
    Keep in mind that intentionally bypassing a safety system may make things difficult for you with your insurance company. They like to investigate accidents.
     
  7. May 3, 2011 at 8:27 AM
    #7
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    Even if they find you did disable a safety system they'll cover you. That's what insurance is for, coverage when you do dumb things.

    The shop that does the work is forbid by law from disabling safety systems so they can't put the tape on the light for you, but nothing stops you, the owner, from doing it. Nothing forbids the shop from removing sensors... because the light is on and the safety system is working as it should, i.e., it's not disabled or bypassed.
     
  8. May 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM
    #8
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    Hitch and wiring, aux back-up light, rear strobe lights, radio and underseat sub.
    Removing the sensors from the tires IS disabling the system since it can't read the tire pressure. Since your actions, or those of the mechanic, caused it, you intentionally disabled it.
    A tire related accident caused by you, yea, they'll investigate. Kill someone by accident, you'll have a negligent homicide case on your hands.
    I can only lead you to the well of information. Do with it what you wish:cool:
     
  9. May 3, 2011 at 2:31 PM
    #9
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not disabling it. That's a common misconception. The fact is, if you take off the sensors and the light illuminates it is doing exactly what it was designed to do which is alerting you to check tire pressure: how can you possibly argue it's disabled?

    Originally installed TPMS are covered by Federal Motor VehicleSafetyStandards (FMVSS 138 and may not be tampered with or disabled under specific provisions of FMVSS 138.

    1. It is against the law to disable or make inoperative any originally installed TPMS in any automobile or light truck (10,000 lbs. GVWR or less), prior to the first retail sale of the vehicle. Significant civil penalties apply to newcar sellers or distributors that sell vehicles that are not in compliance with all applicable FMVSS at the time of sale (49 U.S.C. 30112).

    2. It is against the law to disable any TPMS malfunction indicator light (MIL), even after the first retail sale. Significant civil penalties apply (49 U.S.C. 30112).

    3. There are no prohibitions against the installation of aftermarket tires and wheels after the first retail sale of the vehicle, however it is highly recommended that such installations not interfere with the proper operation of the TPMS.

    Note that in #3 it says "after the first retail sale of the vehicle." That means the dealer who sold the car can't fit tires or wheels that make the system inoperative, but the first, second, etc owner can. It's highly recommended that the TPMS system remain operative, but not illegal if it doesn't.

    Another even more informative read is found here:

    http://www.tirereview.com/Article/5...ir_on_tpms_regs_and_plussizing_conundrum.aspx
     
  10. May 3, 2011 at 4:55 PM
    #10
    u4icstargazer

    u4icstargazer [OP] Member

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    Well, thanks everybody & I guess that's a lot of food for thought.

    The original conundrum was, as I stated-- both sets of wheels all have TPMS sensors but $85 a pop twice a year to authenticate them seems a little steep!

    Guess the days of folks putting seasonal tires on their vehicles must be about over-- it's a shame tho 'cause summer tires really don't match winter studs on ice!!
     
  11. May 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM
    #11
    darktaco

    darktaco Active Member

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    scangauge/c.b.-cobra 29/ BO chrome badges/Demello bolt on sliders/rcbs 4x4 led mod/rear tsb / relocated trailer plug to plate light hole/ Toytec U.L.K./L.R. UCA's/AFE-pro-dry air filter/LEDS -plate,dome,map lites /rear diff breather/ImMrYo's mirror lift/redline hood lift,
    As soon as I saw the stock dunlops on my sport ,I found 4 stock wheels and promptly mounted toyo at's for winter/off road duty .
    The tpms light still works !
    I also found the cost too high to reprogram between sets yearly. However I check pressure often .

    IMG_2985 (Small).jpg
    IMG_2986 (Small).jpg
     
  12. May 3, 2011 at 8:06 PM
    #12
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    Hitch and wiring, aux back-up light, rear strobe lights, radio and underseat sub.
    I am grown, thank you. I can also admit when I'm wrong, which I am on the legal side.

    I am for the system. I have been driving long before the tpms system. It would have saved me a tire or two. Checking tires weekly is nice, but won't tell you when you have found some road shrapnel and your rear tire is leaking.

    It's not laziness, it's a tool. I will keep mine on. When I get some mud tires, they will go on separate rims, and get swapped when I wheel.
     
  13. May 3, 2011 at 9:20 PM
    #13
    Tacoyota

    Tacoyota senile member

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    I hope you dont believe that. Insurance is about keeping money/ lowering payouts. They will pay if reasonable, but they have rights too, and enough lawyers to maintain their rights within the legal system. Its what we dont know that gets us in trouble.

    I honestly doubt TPMS tampering will cause insurance to not pay for normal accidents, but if they showed it lead to a tire failure or accident ,theyll win.
     
  14. May 4, 2011 at 4:49 AM
    #14
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely believe it. Would be interested to know if you can find one clause in your policy that could possibly be construed to allow them not to pay out.

    Think about it: a driver takes a spin at 100mph, wrong way on mid-winter I-95 icy roads in foggy weather, legally drunk in all 50 states. Crashes, tragedy, death ensues. He'd probably be locked up with charges up to and including vehicular homicide... but insurance will pay out to the limits of coverage. How much dumber of an act can you think of? Didn't just disable them but flat out ignored multiple safety systems.

    Disabling a safety system MIGHT result in criminal charges if the act was considered serious enough (a lawyer might be willing to explain under what conditions but remember this: there is no law against being stupid), but insurance will pay out. That's what it is for.

    As far as disabling TPMS goes: it's really not effective as a 'safety system' even when working. The delay on sounding an alarm is so long that cases like the Ford Explorer's (the head line grabber that brought the whole stupid issue before Congress in the first place) probably wouldn't be prevented.

    And consider this: I read an article that claims over 9 million sensors will be needing replacement in the next few years as sensor batteries go bad. Does ANYONE seriously believe people are going to spend $150 up to $500 for all 5 wheels to replace and reprogram sensors on 9 year old cars? There will be millions of vehicles being driven with TPMS lights a-flashing.

    This whole TPMS debacle is utterly stupid... it's one of those reactionary things that should be repealed. Or designs modified to go away from direct to indirect and avoid the whole sensor idiocy.
     
  15. May 4, 2011 at 7:41 AM
    #15
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    I can definitely agree with that they need to look proactively to cover their risk. But they can't walk away after an accident.

    I don't believe you'll find any such clause in the policy, except where it looks proactively and then give notice that "You're policy is canceled effective...".

    If they managed to cancel a policy after an accident occurs, then what is the purpose of buying insurance? If you did everything perfectly you'd never need it, and by definition an accident is the result of operating the vehicle unsafely.

    Question: if you don't have seat belts on do they cancel insurance?

    If the bumper was previously bashed do they cancel insurance?

    Do they cancel insurance if tire tread is below minimums?

    Do they cancel insurance if brake pads are grinding on the binders?

    Do they cancel insurance if a brake lamp is out?

    Do they cancel insurance they find you've blacked-out head lights? or put in aftermarket HID's?

    All of these are very common unsafe conditions, one or more existing on half of vehicles over 5 yrs old on the road. If someone knows of one example where insurance refused to pay a claim in the presence of conditions like those let's hear it!
     
  16. May 4, 2011 at 4:26 PM
    #16
    Tacoyota

    Tacoyota senile member

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    Yea , the whole thing is stupid to be sure, exploder owners who dont check tires + marginal quality.

    But as far as insurance not paying, they do pay for quite a bit of idiocy, but heres the thing. At work we do accident reports with involvement from police, some of them we, err the city attorneys , go after the driver when insurance wont pay... were talking ran over stop signs etc. I dont get involved as to why they dont pay , but the cities' lawyers try to get the money from the driver in court in those cases.
     
  17. May 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM
    #17
    Jere

    Jere Outdoorsman

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    Insurance debates aside, to answer the OP questions:

    The TPMS ECM can only maintain one set of TPMS ids at a time, so you will need to reprogram whenever you change your wheels (assuming the wheels have different TPMS in them).
    There are reprogram units, available among other places at Tire Rack, including one that is capable of remembering multiple sets of ID's and easily reprogramming your truck each spring and fall. If memory serves me correctly, they cost about $150. Wouldn't take long to recover the cost at your swap rate. Maybe you can find a buddy at work who is doing the same thing and you can go halfers.
    It's a pain to run to the dealer twice a year to reprogram, at least write them down to make it easier. FWIW, I took a piece of paper with my ID codes (they are stamped on the inside of the TPMS) to my dealer and they programmed mine for $50.

    Finally, some people report that they store their unused set of wheels near enough to where they park their trucks so that the TPMS ECM can re-sync every night in the garage to the 4 wheels stacked in the corner.

    And double finally, I drove with mine lit for about 3 months, till it just agravated me $50 worth and I took it in to get it reprogrammed. I don't swap twice a year, I was just replacing my OEM steel wheels.
     
  18. May 4, 2011 at 4:44 PM
    #18
    Tacoyota

    Tacoyota senile member

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    I bought a set of aluminum wheels from a TW member, got the sensors on line. Les Schwab tires reprograms mine free at rotation. I try to do them the courtesy of showing up at a less busy time . Sad that a country that sent men to the moon cant get TPMS right,as far as storing #s for 2 sets.:crazy:

    Yea , the extra cost woulda bought me a set of DT headers. But it is what it is.
     
  19. May 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM
    #19
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    You've never heard of a traffic offense for 'operating a vehicle unsafe for conditions'? I got a ticket for driving the posted limit in a driving rainstorm in Oklahoma for just that.

    Can't blame them for that... because they know that once they cover you, they have to pay! It's how they manage the risk.

    I think that's so they can move you to different premium classes based on the mod: modding in a V8, for instance, puts an I4 vehicle into a new class. Also, much more commonly, coverage for electronics like high-value stereos.

    That may be true, but it doesn't get them out of a contractual obligation.

    Oh... and this: has anyone ever had insurance canceled and refuse to pay-out a claim when they found ARB (or similar solid-steel) bumpers were affixed? Removal of the federally mandated, energy absorbing OEM bumper is defeating a safety system. Putting an ARB on completely alters crash performance of the vehicle, and not for the better in high-energy collisions. Especially for the other vehicle... but possibly for the occupants too!
     
  20. Jul 3, 2011 at 8:42 AM
    #20
    u4icstargazer

    u4icstargazer [OP] Member

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    Well the final resolution was too simple: I got a second TPMS system for my 2007 Silverado camper which I run mostly in the summer-- this is an Accutire TPMS which is under $100:
    http://www.amazon.com/Accutire-MS-4378GB-Pressure-Monitor-Trailer/dp/B002PMM9N2

    The monitor just plugs into the lighter plug and the sensors attach to the inflation nipple threads. It's on my Silverado now and the system seems to work just fine. It's a nice module & I get each sequential pressure readout in psi on the monitor continuously!

    I'll just switch the add-on TPMS when I put on the winter wheels and tape over the OEM system. I'll still have monitoring just like I have for the Silverado and it won't take 5 minutes to swap everything around!

    Wish I'd known all this before I spent $400 on the sensors for the second set of wheels!!!
     
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