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Tractors, Mowers, Chippers, Trailers, Chainsaws, Generators, Boat Engines, & Water Heater talk.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by six5crèéd, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:18 PM
    #6421
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    I got no issue with WM oil either. I'm sure we would have seen failure reports pretty quick if WM oil was bad.

    The same with Fram oil filters.
     
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  2. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:21 PM
    #6422
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    API SJ (1997 ish) was the last formula to maintain the "traditional" levels of zinc and phosphorus that had been standard in engine oils for decades for backwards compatibility for older flat tappet engines.
     
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  3. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:28 PM
    #6423
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    We are leaving Fram out of this... ;)

    It is not a matter of a "bad or good" product but the correct product for the job.

    For a moment lets use Mobil 1 (or any other reputable brand) as an example:
    Long history of a class leader in synthetics, agree
    Country wide availability, agree
    Factory fill on many high performance engines, agree
    Good price point, agree
    Sounds like an excellent product doesn't it?

    But I need window wash fluid... Mobil 1 makes a cruddy window wash not due to quality but because it isn't the correct product for the job.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  4. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:41 PM
    #6424
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    The products available on store shelves (API SN, and newer) are for current vehicles driven by most consumers.

    Z & P was kept in the formulas even though it wasn't required for newer (90's) engines, as the years went by and oils were improved (API SD, SE, SF, SG, etc.) to address the concerns of (then) modern engines, older engines benefited by the advances in newer formulas too but were still provided the flat tappet protection they needed.

    The EPA begin pressuring the auto makers to make converters last longer,
    the auto makers in turn pressured the oil manufacturers to remove the additives (ZDDP) that could shorten converter life.

    The oil manufacturers position on this is: There should be enough protection for most older engines in most operating conditions. The added emphasis being mine not theirs.
     
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  5. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:46 PM
    #6425
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    To come back full circle, the Kohler oil label for many years specifically stated "meets API SJ performance requirements" -- the last high ZDDP formula, odd coincidence that...

    Again, if they (Kohler) didn't feel there was something important here they could have simply used any current specification oil.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
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  6. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:51 PM
    #6426
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    I like the info, but I have a hard time thinking it will be worth while worrying about. These older engines wont matter in the next 5 years. They, like us wont matter. Those motors will done.
     
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  7. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:56 PM
    #6427
    Steve Urquell

    Steve Urquell No Pants

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    There are a lot of oil discussions on the tractor forum I mod on. One thing pointed out that I agree with but didn't really think about until it was pointed out is that OPE engines don't have the valvespring pressure an auto engine has so the need for ZDDP is not as critical for them as it is for an auto.

    I'm gonna run zinc-laden oils just in case it does matter but I won't argue oil with anyone. Any oil kept full and changed is better than none and never.
     
  8. Mar 14, 2022 at 5:57 PM
    #6428
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    Are you saying there will be no gasoline engines in 5 years or that none of our oldies will make another 5?

    My old 66 Ford 289 only has about 55K on it, I think she has a few years left. :laugh:
     
  9. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:08 PM
    #6429
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing about oil, either. The cat's in this thread are pretty good about keeping on top of maintenance.
     
  10. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:17 PM
    #6430
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    Well...


    Jesus was a Ford man...

















    He walked everywhere...



    Sorry...Couldn't resist.
     
  11. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:21 PM
    #6431
    six5crèéd

    six5crèéd [OP] Shop Time

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
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  12. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:27 PM
    #6432
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    I don't believe anyone is arguing yet... :laugh:

    I agree about the low valve spring pressure in small engines.
    I also agree that clean close to spec oil is better none and never.
    The point I felt interesting and wanted to share was the prominent use of the SJ/SL specification by Kohler.

    My life both personal and professional has been spent making equipment last longer and work better. Unanswered questions bother me, I'm compelled to grind a question down to a dust and find that answer.

    There is always an optimal way (or specification) for everything -- and yes I freely admit that lots of the time it really doesn't matter that much.:laugh:

    (But I'm still compelled to find that answer, my cross to bear I guess...) :anonymous:
     
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  13. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:35 PM
    #6433
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    :rofl::rofl:

    I'm really an "anything that starts when I turn the key and is paid for man"...

    Current driveway:
    Toyota -- retirement trophy
    Dodge -- daily van, $1200 and does 3/4 of what a pick up does
    XJ Cherokee -- gets out in the winter vehicle
    Subaru -- Wife
    F-250 -- for truck stuff, 460 power -- 7.5 mpg in town, up to 11 on the road
    66 Ford -- ice cream runner
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:39 PM
    #6434
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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  15. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:40 PM
    #6435
    Steve Urquell

    Steve Urquell No Pants

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    Y'all may remember I worked truck fleet for 7 years 1989-96 and trailer wreck rebuild for 13. During my fleet duty I saw many types of oil filters as well as many oils used. We ran Pennzoil in the gas burner Chevy vans at one fleet and they ran for 300,000 miles without lifting a valve cover. Wix oil filters. Most of the big diesels ran Rotella 15W-40 at 11,000 mile OCIs.

    The only times I can recall any oil related failure is when I switched my personal Ford Tempo 2.3L from Motorcraft oil to Phillips Trop-Arctic ~1993. It started dumping oil out of every seal on it. I changed it back to MC and it dried up within 800miles.

    I ran Fram(OMG!!) filters on my 1994 Ford Ranger from 1995-2017 and it had 165,000 miles on it when I traded it and didn't use a drop of oil.

    My wife's Hyundai Tuscon just got a new engine under warranty at 85,000miles with 4 scored cylinder walls. 3500mi OCIs with synthetic oil and Hyundai filters. Bad engine design GDI with many documented failures. Her's was burning oil at 65,000miles.
     
  16. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:46 PM
    #6436
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    Interesting career change from working on trucks to working on people. :confused:

    I ran Motorcraft oil in everything for years back when, it was a high quality oil with no advertising behind it so very affordable. The secret must have got out because suddenly the price rocketed up with the big names.
     
  17. Mar 14, 2022 at 6:56 PM
    #6437
    Steve Urquell

    Steve Urquell No Pants

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    Weirdly enough it is related. I had PT in 2004 to rehab a herniated disk in my back. I knew I needed to get out and wanted to go into a medical career but no idea what I wanted to do. Started paying off the house and teaching myself how to use a computer.

    In 2009 I almost had the house paid off and ripped off my Left bicep tendon. Surgery to repair--6mths of PT afterwards followed by surgery to the Right shoulder to clean out bone spurs. My surgeon told me to get out of the biz and I was directed to Arkansas Workforce who told me they would pay tuition for me to learn a new career.

    They showed me a pamphlet for the community college and in the medical section was a PTA program. I said "I'm gonna do that!"
     
  18. Mar 15, 2022 at 4:27 PM
    #6438
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    I was in Slowes today and found a deck belt for my ZT on the clearance rack. :yes:

    KIMG1986.jpg
     
  19. Mar 15, 2022 at 5:01 PM
    #6439
    Steve Urquell

    Steve Urquell No Pants

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    Where are we on posting stuff outside the thread title in here? @six5crèéd Really happy with an electric pressure washer I used today as well as a high limb saw and was going to share if not too far OT.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
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  20. Mar 15, 2022 at 5:15 PM
    #6440
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    He better not care, he's posting lawn mower stuff in his shop thread.
     

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