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Transmission woes: Won't line up..GRRRR!

Discussion in 'Toyota Trucks & SUVs' started by RuralTowner, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Jun 15, 2011 at 8:47 PM
    #1
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Male
    Bouse, AZ
    Vehicle:
    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    The truck in question is an 81...my 4sp died so a 5sp replacement tranny thats going in is from a mid 80s (I cannot be more precise with the year for this one). If it helps with figuring out the problem...I also have a backup 4sp that's outwardly identical to the 5sp. My issue as as follows:

    Ok 1 problem: I cannot get the transmission to line up with the pilot bearing. The bell goes on just fine on its own. The input shaft at its narrowest and thickest is identical to the old transmission and pilot tool and it goes into the clutch disc fine...BUT!

    The input shaft is 3 1/8th inch instead of 3 1/4 like the old tranny. The closest I can get the transmission installed is 1/8th an inch from flush...I do not have enough input shaft length it seems to make it to the pilot bearing to complete the lining up. NOTE: The input shaft of both the 5sp and spare 4sp are identical...so even if I was using the latter I'd still have the same problem. I've spent 2 afternoons so far trying to get it lined up.

    Here's my question: Did flywheel thickness change at all between 81 and 88? It would seem that if it were even 1/16th an inch thinner I could jostle the tranny into place. I already eliminated the throwout bearing hitting the fingers as a culprit...there's a good inch or so of travel as it currently stands before the 2 touch when I move the fork. Or possible is the newer years pilot bearing thicker?

    I'm at a loss to get things lined up. It seems as if the tip of the input shaft reaches the pilot bearing but I can't seem to get it started...this is with someone in the cap of the truck maneuvering the rear of the tranny with a rope while I'm underneath manhandling the bell and the rest.
     
  2. Jun 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM
    #2
    mjohn617

    mjohn617 Well-Known Member

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    Petaluma, CA
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    Toytec ULK, OME Dakar leafs, LED conversion, RBP sidesteps, Nitto Trail Grapplers, AR ATX Artillery 16" wheels, Doug Thorley LTH/Pipe Bomb, TRD Exhaust W/Classic Chambered Powerstick, Lightend Flywheel
    Wow! You might need to do some reverse engineering on this, that might me very hard to answer....but it is Tacoma World, crazy shit happens all the time!

    ......:popcorn:
     
  3. Jun 15, 2011 at 10:11 PM
    #3
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

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    Bouse, AZ
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    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    On the old transmission and "new" transmission input shafts there is the the discolored ring where the pilot bearing had sat before. On all 3 transmissions (including the shot one) that ring is in the same place. It seems as if the newer engines had the recess for the pilot bearing sticking slightly further out from the end of the crank shaft. Might it be possible that putting a new pilot bearing (since the old one would likely be destroyed during removal) in only 2/3 to 3/4 the way would be safe? This would give me just that slight extra margin I'd need to get that one vital "jiggle" for alignment. That or find a slightly wider bearing....the existing one (for 81 and 88) is 0.3937in...having one 0.5 would be perfect.

    I also noticed that the existing bearing is in its recess far enough that there is also a slight lip between the bearing and the outer edge of its recess in the crankshaft.
     
  4. Jun 16, 2011 at 9:31 PM
    #4
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Male
    Bouse, AZ
    Vehicle:
    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    Managed to remove the alignment pegs in the engine to see if that will at all help...will know when I get back to it tomorrow after work. Got back too late today to try...particularly since the extra set of hands wasn't available to handle the rope at the rear of the tranny.

    The replacement transmissions are 1/8th inch shorter in the splines. Okay what changed for them to do that? Was the center of the crankshaft where the pilot shaft is pressed in...extended back that much more in the later years?
     
  5. Jun 16, 2011 at 10:02 PM
    #5
    n0rth

    n0rth Well-Known Member

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    Idaho
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    2009 Tacoma Access Cab SR5, 4wd, 2.7L URD S/C, 4:88's ARB lockers, 36x9.8r16 Radial TSL
    You might want to check this board out http://board.marlincrawler.com/ A friend of mine swapped a 5 speed into his 81 and did not have any issues seems it should go right in I will give him a call and see if he has any insight tomorrow. Good luck let us know if pulling the alignment pins helps out.

    EDIT.... Here is the link I was looking for http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=37486.0
    Here is another link that should help figure out which 5 speed tranny you have. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
     
  6. Jun 17, 2011 at 9:45 PM
    #6
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Male
    Bouse, AZ
    Vehicle:
    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    Before todays installation attempt...took a sander to the tip of the input shaft and gave it a bit more of a taper since it was more of a sharp bevel. Anyhow...VOILA! FINALLY! Got it to that 1/8th in point and with a sharp jiggle got it down to about 1/16th in gap so SOMETHING went where it was suppose to. Put in the bottom 2 bolts and got them barely snug...did the same with the top...and grabbed hold 1 last time...and it went flush with the engine.

    Everythings together...though I will have to make a new support bracket for the exhaust pipe since the old one doesn't work too well with a tranny that has a ribbed bell...even after excessive metal removal with a bench grinder. Rear support bracket is bolted in but also got a trim since the belly of the transmission extends about 4in further back than the old one and a result I have the transmission mount held to the bracket and cross member with nothing more than 6 passes with bailing wire. Got the tunnel in the cab repaired though will need to place the seat back in to see what mods need to be done to the stick to make sure it clears the seat.

    So tomorrow after getting home from work (Saturday is my Friday) I'll get the final bits done...roll the truck off the ramps...fill it up with new 80W90 gear oil...start it up and keep my digits crossed.

    Looked at that link showing the transmissions. Mine IDK if its listed there or not since some have ??? for length. It MIGHT BE a W56. When I measured my transmission I went from bell to end of dust cap (29inches)...but tomorrow I'll take the tape to to the other transmission (from front of transmission itself to output shaft tip only) to see since it also had same measurement otherwise.

    I'd STILL like to know why the later transmission input shafts are 1/8th in shorter :( since it's not exactly helpful to alignment unless you get it absolutely perfect the first time. Spending about 8-9 hours over 2 days on the first failed attempts was annoying...did't have this much trouble after replacing my main rear oil seal.. :(
     
  7. Jun 18, 2011 at 8:51 PM
    #7
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Male
    Bouse, AZ
    Vehicle:
    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    WOOT! Seems to shift in all gears fine! FINALLY OVERDRIVE so bye-bye(?) 28-30mpgs and hello 30-32(?). Now can risk the drive to near Phoenix to those Pick-A-Part places...though I'll still be driving in the slow lane even though the posted limit of 75 wouldn't be as BIG a deal anymore...much over 65mph and oil consumption starts to noticeably rise from the norm of about 1/2qt every 2 weeks-ish.

    Just need to reroute the speedo cable now. Going to remove it completely then knock a hole in the tunnel so it runs from the speedo...through and down along the dash...then into the tunnel. As it stands its about 3 inches too short to work proper :(.

    Drained what little oil was left in the tranny before doing the test run...had a bit more metal paste than the dead 4sp did...felt a couple slivers in there too but the test went fine. Going to run it for this next week using this oil batch which should be plenty of time to clear up any other loose metal grit. Then I'll put in a fresh load along with some STP.
     
  8. Jun 19, 2011 at 10:00 PM
    #8
    RuralTowner

    RuralTowner [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Member:
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    Messages:
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    Male
    Bouse, AZ
    Vehicle:
    81 Standard 1/2 ton 22R
    Now the only problem is that my speedo won't work with the tranny. 45mph indicated is 60...my speedo is a 0-85...and I'm guessing I'd need a 100-110max...the head only. The one that originally came with the truck...the odo took a dump on me so I used the 0-110 from a parts Corolla I had...worked okay enough...though the odo stopped turning for it eventually...even though it still worked. The speed discrepancy was about the same as mine now reads...just opposite. At the start of May I Spent 50$ off eBay for a proper replacement but now that replacement wont read right :(

    The 5sp is of a much newer year and the speedo drive gear is probably different enough from the one I pulled from my dead tranny to prevent re-using it...maybe? The 5sps gear is pretty well stuck...I'd have to take channel locks to the threads and thus ruining the ability to attach the speedo cable...just to get the gear out. I guess its time to follow up on that speedo out of that mid 70s Toyota pickup...thats literally next door to the guy I got the 5sp from.
     
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