TRD/ Magnuson 4.0 Supercharger Tips, Tricks, and Mods

So I bought some Ruthenium plugs. Do they need to be gapped to the same spec as stock plugs? Or could they potentially be damaged in the process like iridiums?

 

Short answer: water is not combustible so it would involve less spray otherwise introducing water into the chamber.. I'm a complete newb to this so take it with a grain. There shouldn't be any major adjustment of fuel taken because it's not drastic VS running meth only that might affect AFR by 1 point (please don't come for me, my internet research said so). See what changes are and adjust accordingly..

 

Thanks for giving your thoughts on it! I am sure a water meth mixture is considered best. Of course you have to buy meth and keep the mixture consistent for whatever jets you are spraying through for your setup. The amount of meth going into a cylinder for each combustion must be quite small, and given it burns at a much lower AFR it probably doesn't impact the mixture much. But the point isn't spraying extra fuel to my knowledge, the point is to spray something that absorbs TONS of BTUs of heat energy as it converts to a gas. Which water does, alcohol does, etc. And by having a much cooler charge in the chamber, you get higher air density, which makes more power (after all any forced induction and intercooling is all about air density), as well as detonation resistance. I think I will do some more research eventually on the differences of 50/50 and just straight water. My guess is that the mix is better for power since it also burns as well as pulling heat from the air charge, but water by itself isn't far behind. But FWIW, that is all just thoughts and guesses.

I hope we can all agree, that the highest air density makes the most power, full stop. More boost if it only raises temps and lowers air density will not make more power. Which is why the intercoolers work when they are reducing the inlet temp and therefore increasing the air density.

I wish,,, we could get Justin, or someone in the HPtune world to convert our MAF sensors to use an aftermarket probe tapped into the blower lid itself after the intercooler, so the computer could adjust based on actual intake air temp, not atmospheric air temp like it gets now. I think that setup is used on some 3G blowers, not sure. It is better by a lot for the computer to actually know the temps of the incoming air after compression and intercooling, which can vary by a LOT for the same outside air temp.

 

I might be able to make that work. I'll look into it and get back on that. It's possible, but would obviously require drilling/dapping your supercharger casting for the sensor.

 

I’m running the UCon with my stage 2 snow water meth setup, and Scott told me previously that at WOT the UCon was pulling 15% fuel to account for the added methanol. Most leave the fueling alone in the tune to stay on the safe side in case the pump ever fails- that’s how I have my spare HPtuners ecu set up.

The UCon adapts on its own to some degree, so it’s a little more beneficial with water/meth and it has the guardian feature as a bit of a fail safe protection. The real benefit to the methanol other than the cooled intake charge is the added safety from the additional octane. It will turn 93 pump gas into roughly 115

 

While any alcohol is a fuel with WAY higher octane, you aren't mixing in enough to change the actual motor octane of the fuel by that much. You would have to mix a LOT of some very high octane fuel to end up with 115 as the result. Most of the benefit you experience is due to the lower temps/increased density, and therefore the big increase in detonation resistance. One characteristic of a high octane fuel is a slower burn and therefore resistance to detonation (high octane fuels for super high boost high output engines), with a intake charge cooling spray, you are getting a big increase in the air density, and detonation resistance from all the heat pulled out as the liquid converts to a gas, and that ACTS like a higher octane fuel, but doesn't actually burn as slow as a high octane fuel would. So you can't adjust timing like you would with an actual high octane race fuel.

It is interesting that the UCON adapts for the added fuel. If I recall correctly, it stays in closed loop operation all the time right? Does it have an input for when the meth spray is triggered and it just drops fuel by 15%, or does it sense the mixture and Scott has tuned it to reduce fuel by that much? What if you ran out, had to just use water, or somehow ended up with a mixture that was more meth and less water, would it adjust automatically?

Again, just my thoughts and ramblings, I'm not an expert. I just like thinking and understanding high performance combustion engine theory.

 

Yes the Ucon is in closed loop all the time. Scott referred to it as a WOT adaptive. It learns over time that it needs less fuel at WOT to reach the target AFR and pulls fuel until it hits the target. Similarly to how Holley EFI self-learns based on the o2 sensor feedback it’s getting.

I’m spraying 375ml/min with my setup and use a 50/50 blend. There is nothing special about my tune, anyone with a UCon will likely see the same thing if they run water/meth. It only sprays in wot but the ucon sees the extra fuel and adjusts accordingly.

If the pump was to fail it would adjust automatically and call for more duty on the primary injectors and I also have a 7th. If it can’t reach target AFR quickly then the guardian kicks in.

 

interesting, thanks for the info and descriptions

 

I think that is a slick way to do it, and the correct by construction solution. Obviously would require the new sensor, a piggyback harness, and the labor to install. Do you think that the benefit is already there, when the computer knows the actual air temp it just works better? Or would this mod need to come with alternative tuning to an already HP tuned computer - to do something with the effective changes in intake temp? Thanks!

 

The 2G will only start pulling timing after IAT exceeds 122°F reaching a maximum of 3° of retard at 158°F.

I don't see any real performance benefit coming from it, but it would be the more accurate way to account for the actual air mass entering the engine.

 

Interesting. Do you have any sense of the actual air temp after the intercooler? Either in controlled situations like on the dyno after a cool down and a burst of 100% throttle, or crazy uncontrolled, heat soaked, out in the wild - like on a 6k foot climb at 50-70% throttle, highway speeds when the ambient air temp is well over 100 degrees (yes I've been there...)? I guess I'm curious how well the intercooler does when under load for a really long time. And, after finding that out I wonder if those temps would be in the range that the stock computer starts doing something about it. How much power is 3 degrees of timing worth? How much safety margin is 3 degrees of timing worth in terms of detonation resistance? Currently, using my scanguage, I have seen as high as 140 degree IAT temps while underway - (This happened when the intake tube pulled out of the cowl from engine movement, not sure how long it was like that). Never cared about temps at idle. But if that hot air was compressed to 5 psi or more, and then not cooled well due to a heat soaked IC, I could see it being WAY over 158 degrees...

Are the 122 and 158 temps something that can be changed along with the amount of timing change? If you saw temps outside of that range, would you do anything different to help control the engine, either for more correct AFR given the actual amount of air or more importantly for safer operation without any detonation? I only assume, but don't know, that if the temp and air mass of entering the engine is more accurate, than even the open loop fueling gets more accurate as a result?

Sorry I have so many questions! I do find this interesting for sure. Thanks in advance.

 

So the Tacoma and Tundra s/c use the same spark plugs. Over on Tundras.com, they're experimenting with a newer designed Toyota coil. IDK if they'd work on the Tacoma, but worth a try. Can't be any worse than the RIPP's.

If i remember correctly, the newer style uses fewer internal parts, or that all of the internal parts are integrated into the top part of the coil, instead of throughout the coil....something

https://www.tundras.com/threads/general-supercharger-thread.85513/page-574#post-3646168

 

and link to the coil diagram differences between the 3UR tundra and the NX200t 8ARFTS

https://www.tundras.com/threads/general-supercharger-thread.85513/page-569#post-3639833

 

and the theory behind using them:

"My coils have 142k, new coils are holy shit expensive (for 8) theory is these have more voltage/use newer better tech & it was theorized are plug & play.
I found them from a Lexus turbo for 15 each with 74 (I think) k miles, & decided to be the guinea pig.
So far so good."

Edit: one of the tundra guys confirmed it works on his 3rd gen taco.

 

Just in case anyone is interested. Kelford Cam GB. I'm sure we can get enough to get the better tier for 1gr cams but if any 1uz or 3rz guys want in, they may give a price break.

 

Can we get some current feedback from those that have already installed these? I can only remember a negative experience. How is the tuning difficulty? Power gains, drivability issues?

 

I have the SC1 cams, for low boost up to 9psi I think. They run good, broad power band with more up top. Tuning was not bad at all. I sent a data log and then a second. I am not running the 3* cam gears with mine. If you weren't so far away I 'd offer a test drive.

 

They state they're good up to 14psi, this on otherwise stock heads. Not that exceeding that is bad, they're just optimized to increase VE in that range.

I'm wondering if they'd sell me just the 264 intake cams?

 

I saw a blurb about the snout cutter working with a quick change hub already installed, obviously no pulley, is this true?

 

Could someone supply the dimensions of the 4.0L 1GR ignition coil?

Here is the 8ARFTS, which fits the 3UR AND 2GRFKS in the 3rd Gen.