Truck broke down today...

But now if she picks it up and problem does not reoccur, she could be opening herself up for implied acceptance and problem resolved ... now No replacement.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Toyota doesn't come to an agreement with her with arbitration, she can take up to court. If the judge decides to appoint a jury, the jury would totally give her a new truck.

I'm pretty sure that it would cost Toyota a lot less in court and lawyer fees to just give her a new truck. That is why this will be settled in arbitration.

The less lawsuits that Toyota has, the better their rating in the BBB. Which someone in Toyota Corporate will fight tooth and nail to get it settled before it goes to court.

 

I would just ask that they send what ever they say in writing. It sounds like things are going the right direction but don't let your guard down. Stay on top.

 

at this point, that "worthless" truck is worth more to the R&D team at Toyota because they would want to diagnose the issue and see where their QA failed.

Toyota has opened a case so they want the truck back and they don't care if they have to give her a brand new one.

 

Once the truck has been in for repair for 30 days, lemon law has already been triggered. If the truck is perfect or not, it has no current implication.

Key issue people keep skipping over is, this is not an issue between dealership vs the owner of the truck. This is an issue with Toyota N.A. and the owner of the truck.

 

Well said, and absolutely correct.

 

Except the case is to decide whether or not they want it back. So not entirely true yet.

 

She's not out of the woods until Toyota gives her something in writing and she is signing delivery paperwork for a replacement vehicle. Meanwhile her truck is still hers/the banks

 

Certain states are Corporation friendly and some states are Consumer friendly. Being on the Corporate side, we hate CA CA gives all rights to the consumer. For the OP this is a good thing. Lemon law in CA is not only consumer friendly, the state has created CDSP program to help the consumer, and as long as the metrics are met (which are clearly spelled out), the end result will be the same.

Having an attorney in a Lemon Law case helps in a few areas:
-If your issue is a gray area (your engine blows up while on track as an example)...
-You are looking for not only a replacement vehicle but also $$ for pain and suffering
-You are unwilling to subtract any value for use and mileage you put on the original vehicle.

Often times, people don't want the same vehicle to replace the troublesome one. The average M5 owner, Lotus Exige owner, Maserati Quattroporte owner, they want Manufacturer to buy the car back + pay them for pain and suffering + while not paying for any miles used. When negotiations get tough, having a good lemon lawyer is essential.

What has been incredibly surprising to me, as I have followed this one from day one, that Toyota N.A. didn't push the dealership to get the car out faster. In my years of experience in this field, we would make sure car gets out on day 28, to NOT trigger the lemon law.

 

Sure wish there was a way to keep ignored members from popping up in quotes. Uninformed and just trying to make others feel as miserable as they are themselves .

 

All you can hope for is they will either be banned or give up because no one is listening to their bs anymore

 

You raise a good point in that some states are corporation friendly and others are more consumer friendly.

 

This was my concern actually. The reason why N.A was unable to push was because the parts were on backorder and there was "nothing to be done." I'm not sure how powerful of a draw they can have on getting a gasket kit ordered and sent but that was ultimately what held me over the 30 days. I was concerned that the Lemon Law was only effective while repairs were ACTIVELY being done on the vehicle, NOT including time spent waiting for parts which would be essentially out of the dealerships control. I suppose this is not the case and any amount of time over the 30 days, whether it's waiting for parts or in active, hands on repair, doesn't matter.

 

Correct Lindsay, 30 days it has spent the night at the dealer.... doesnt matter why. Anyways at least it is moving forward.

 

Trust me on this.
1) The dealership owner and Toyota N.A. will be having a conversation.
2) Somebody at Toyota N.A. dropped the ball on not getting the parts.
3) There will be actions taken internally, to get to the bottom of who dropped the ball on your truck. Things you won't see, but careers are ruined over things like this...

Whenever a dealership would alert us, on a new car/truck that it might trigger lemon law, we made sure parts were DELIVERED to the dealer. If we didn't have the parts, we would "fix it" and deliver to the customer. Customer would bring it back in a day or two, but that would count for us "making an attempt."

Manufacturers don't like taking cars back. They don't like sullying their reputation to the general public. Reputation is built on years and years, and it can be erased overnight, and that has substantial monetary losses in the long run.

From the CA attorney general:

(1) the same problem results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the problem has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (2) the same problem has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (3) the vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.

 

... ^^^... Kim ... I think you have been the cornerstone of this thread with your knowledge and guidance.

Another factor that I think Toyota N.A. will like to know is ... "what really happened to this vehicle" ... was it the dealer (oil drain & oil light on) or was it an OEM manufacturing defect ... who ultimately pays the bar tab on this ??

I would love the be a fly on the wall in those conversations ... Dealer caused problem or OEM caused problem ??

The end result "lemon law" will probably be the same ... but who did what and where was it done ... this could figure into their time not being used wisely too ... someone got scared and froze at the switch .

This whole engine problem has been super weird from the beginning ... and I feel for the OP.

 

You are absolutely right on.

The most interesting part of my job wasn't the initial defense of the claim. We know about 85% of the time in the consumer friendly state, we would lose. Even if we had facts on our side, often times we would buy the vehicle back especially to extend good will to the customer. If the customer was willing to stay with the brand, we would bend over backwards to make it happen quickly.

The interesting part came, after the fact, just as you alluded to. Often times, the manufacturer was at fault. The times that I can remember dealership was at fault, it was very very difficult to prove. Also remember that dealership franchise is our customer as well, so we can't sour all relationships. The dealership and manufacturer relationship is a very interesting yet symbiotic one. That is what Tesla has been good at eliminating. If you want some interesting stories in this realm, look up how Chrysler dealership in Los Angeles fought with FCA over that particular dealership.

Lastly, you are absolutely right, that the end result will be the same. Toyota will replace OP's truck (if that is what she wants), but the real fight will begin afterwards. Finger pointing to the dealership, to the engineering department, finger pointing at who dropped the ball. There will be countless memos written, and total hours and money spent behind this will be almost 3 new Tacomas worth.

 

If I was at Toyota corp, I would have done the following:

1. Got a new truck in her hands within a week.
2. Not let the dealer attempt a fix
3. Trailered that failed Tacoma to the engine engineers at corp
4. Dissected the engine to determine root cause of the failure

 

Yeah but that's a little too reasonable for an automaker

 

Yea, in an ideal world where corporations care, an immediate hold on the vehicle would be placed for a customer with a blown engine. In order to determine the dealer didn't have a hand in this and to remove the dry sump theory, that would have had to occur before they touched the vehicle again. Highly unlikely.

So we'll never know what really happened.

Unless of course the dealer really did fuck up and someone confesses. Also unlikely to happen unless someone wants to switch careers.