TSB-0092-20 is awesome!

Instead they have these 8, 9,10+ speed transmissions that shift even more than ours

 

Obviously you have no clue of the advantages of a 8, 9, or 10 speed transmission brings.

 

Hold up. You're complaining about transmission behavior but you want more gears? Yeah, the 8s and up will skip shift, but it is still down to programming. I have heard mixed reviews on GM / Ford 10spd.

 

Oh I do, but people are always complaining about gear hunting. That's literally occuring more on the higher number geared transmissions. I know there are many advantages, but that doesn't stop people from complaining.

It's like the CVT transmission problem. CVTs are great that they keep you in the torque band, but people thought it was too weird to drive. Manufacturers ended up having to program fake shifts into the CVT to make people more comfortable at a loss to CVT efficiency.

 

As odd as it may sound, the two gearless modes (i and s) of the CVT in our Forester have so much delay and hesitation that it isn't funny. The only responsive mode (s#) has 'gears,' which I agree are not necessary. In that mode, it holds gears way too long when not accelerating, so I would have to manually 'shift' the stupid thing. In the end, I just gave up driving it. I'd rather ride right seat and just enjoy listening to the turbo spooling.

IMHO just like standard ATs, the CVT programming is not for optimal torque. It is weighted toward upshift / efficiency even in open loop areas of the maps. Getting them into the lower ranges is always an exercise in patience or forcing it with the manual modes. At least according to our Subaru and the Nissans that I have had as rentals.

 

I’m an auto tech and unfortunately can only speak for European cars but they should just adopt something like the ZF 8 speed like everyone else has. That thing shifts like a DSG, it’s super reliable and there is zero gear hunting. The gear hunting thing is clearly a software or strategy issue and like most newer cars they totally lug the engines to keep emissions low. Also, having more gears means you also have better options depending on engine load and vehicle speed. So really, you might find it just holds 5th rather than hunting around. Or what ever the case is...

 

I think FCA uses that ZF a lot?

My question would be: what kind of programming variance do you notice on the ones that you have seen?

I have not had the chance to drive that AT or the GM / Ford 10spd cousins.

I'm of the mind that six nicely space ratios are more than sufficient on the AT side, if programmed well. Thankfully, I get a lot of excellent feedback from the folks that I have tuned. It is a pleasure to hear folks say that their Taco is now fun to drive, esp when I know that in the past folks traded theirs solely because of the shitty Stock tune.

On the MT side, gimme seven or eight gears. I'd row all day and am just broken like that.

 

The ZF Trans is very reliable. But some other 9 and 10 speed units may not be . I can only imagine how much money one would be to replace. That always worries me also. The Tacoma auto trans maybe have its faults but it is very reliable.

 

Unfortunately for the programming you guys know as much as I do, and sometimes more. Even with a factory tool all we really know is what hardware or software versions a vehicle currently has and if there is an update available. That’s it.

The most information a tech will generally get is what a certain TSB might explain in relation to a customer complaint and updating the software to correct it. It sucks they don’t release much information because it makes it harder to diagnose things also. I can’t tell how many times I’ve followed calculated test plans and trouble trees only to be told “replace DME or throttle actuator” or something else expensive, and it’s wrong.

You don’t realize that the ZF and these other transmissions have such a number of gears, they just go! They’re fast and with so many options you’re always in a better RPM range. Fuel economy goes up, power is better and the overall drivability and experience is just better. I know these are two different planets but a BMW with the N20 engine and a ZF 8 speed just doesn’t drive how a 4 cylinder should. They just go nicely! That transmission just totally utilizes that little engine.

But I agree, I love manual transmissions the best. I was a little indifferent on the Taco and let my wife decide that one. Plus with the traffic around here and having kids it’s nice being able to multitask easier. And when I want to drive something fun I have a motorcycle or my old GT with a 4 speed, rowing gears is like a broomstick in a trash can but it’s awesome.

This is a nice little video if you guys cast or have time.

https://youtu.be/u0BZhs4Ugag

 

That sounds a lot like us here with a hacked activation on TechStream. Hahahaha!

All that I know is that it makes the Tacos better.

Too be honest, I am impressed with the 2.0l in the old Mazda that we got for our daughter. It ain't teabag to drive and is quicker than it should be. But, I do know that it would be more fun with the MT.

 

FWIW, I bought a 2021 OR (sold my 2017 OR), and the shifting points on the 2021 are much better IMO. It doesn't seem to hunt as much and will downshift on uphills quicker than the 2017. It will be interesting to see if a TSB comes out for the 2021.

 

This is the ZF 8sp that is in the Gladiator. Best auto trans I have driven, zero hunting issues and always finds the perfect gear. It is so quick and smooth you forget it’s doing its thing. Engineering explained refers to it as the worlds best auto. As mentioned more gears doesn’t cause gear hunting, that is the result of programming.

 

Just had my fuel pump replaced and brought in the printed TSB. They said my 2019 is fully updated and made no effort to do the flash. Jerks.

 

I just placed a deposit on a 2021 OR manual. Will this come with the most up to date tune?
Also, can anybody comment on how the latest tune is for a manual? Does it still offer improvements on drivability?

 

I recently scheduled my 2019 OR for 20k service online and put in the comments that I wanted the TSB applied. When I checked in, I had the TSB printed and handy. The Service Advisor asked me what I was experiencing and I explained hesitation on acceleration and turns, as well as frequent shifts with cruise and small rolling hills. Wasn't sure if they would apply it. Never looked at the TSB other than to record the number.

I got a video with summary of my service and first thing in the video was tech saying TSB was applied. Have driven about 1,000 miles of highway (700) and city (300) since the update. Very happy with the results. No longer feel the need to use ECT or S-mode. Skinny pedal is much more responsive, and shifts are certainly smoother and less frequent.

 

2021 do not have any updates for the ECU yet. I have flashed 2021s and there is a large difference in the tune from stock. You won't regret getting a tune. It's miles better than stock.

 

My service advisor played dumb and would not engage, as if I what I was saying was completely foreign. I was really looking forward o the new driving dynamics. I'll make the drive to a different dealership. Glad you got yours done.

 

so my i got my 2020 in may of last year, does this mean that my truck came with this tsp? my dealer says it it but then again they said my car did not shake/shudder when we went on the test drive to prove to them that a) hunts gears, b) when slowing down from above 50 to 10 mph the car shakes as if the rotors are warp (but they are not) and the car indeed shake/shudder during the test drive (he said it was road imperfections)

 

Huh?

 

I'm here at the dealership today to do a health check and to see if they are going to update on my truck. Of course like all of you guys that had a bad experience I did myself. Most service advisors I've dealt with have been rude and just don't know how to listen. Anyways they try saying my truck is that way because of the mods I put on it. They were well aware if the issue but act like they don't know. I'm hoping to see if they are actually gonna go through with it. It's crazy how they are going to make me wait 2 hours and more for a health check and an update.

Update: Instead of 2 hours they got me done over a hour which is better than I expected. My Cal ID was 04B3100 now it is 04B330. So it did get updated, I notice that on hilling roads the improvement is there it doesn't hunt for gears, gears are more smooth now, no more hesitation when stepping on gas pedal. Going up hill it holds gears way better and does not hunt for gears. I barely have to press on the gas for it to go now, not a dramatic change but the truck feels better than before. It's a must of you have these issues. It's free and cover through your warranty if your truck is still under 80k. Good luck and go get a health check on your truck.