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Tundra Brakes on '03 Tacoma

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by TACO in SC, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. Sep 19, 2012 at 5:14 PM
    #1
    TACO in SC

    TACO in SC [OP] TuRD

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    Well this is my first posting of a technical nature and thought I should see if there is any cautionary advice. :eek:

    I have ordered new '05 Tundra rotors, calipers, and brake pads to install on my '03 Tacoma. I have read this upgrade improves the Tacoma's braking and is basically a bolt-on modification. The one thing that concerns me is the brake line connection. :confused: I understand the Tundra may use a banjo bolt while the Tacoma something different. Are any of you familiar with this? If not I will have to figure it out as I progress.
     
  2. Sep 19, 2012 at 6:20 PM
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    Grousehunter 12

    Grousehunter 12 Well-Known Member

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    First question is wheel size ? 16's are minimum.

    The Tacoma uses a banjo bolt,your stock brake hose will not work on the Tundra system without drilling. Your choices for hoses that will work without drilling are these or http://www.lceperformance.com/Stainless-Brake-Line-Kit-Tacom-To-Tundra-Upgrade-p/1055114.htm. 2005 Tundra rotors are fine, 2005 calipers might not be what you want,the S13WE calipers bolts up and you only need to bend the backing plates back. These are S13WE's http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...hvfuZ8knro?itemIdentifier=692599_0_5913_56968 ,http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...hvfuZ8knro?itemIdentifier=692600_0_2362_56968. Your 2005 calipers will work by cutting their outline off the backing plates and bending the plates as with the S13WE's.


    http://www.yotatech.com/f2/my-231mm-tundra-brake-upgrade-249984/


    If you have questions just ask, I researched for more than a month before doing the upgrade and bookmarked many articles from different forums. I will post links that answer your questions. I chose not to drill my banjo bolt and would suggest you do likewise,many drilled without problems, I saw old man Murphy standing at every street corner. This is the only mod on my 2002 4x4 TRD that I bought off the showroom floor. I am impressed.
     
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  3. Sep 19, 2012 at 10:59 PM
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    SCSPerformance

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    I just did this mod a couple of weeks ago and it was worth it. Everything was pretty straight forward. I went with rotors and 13WL calipers off an '05 Tundra. I ended up cutting and bending the dust-shield on tight areas.

    For the banjo bolt, I used a 5/32 drill bit and drilled about 1/16 down the center of the bolt. I used a shop-vac to vacuum out the shavings.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    untitled-5_4610c8da7f05b8c83685f21f25c80595481f0f45.jpg
     
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  4. Sep 20, 2012 at 4:09 AM
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    TACO in SC

    TACO in SC [OP] TuRD

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    Thanks guys for the input. I am inclined to first try to modify the brake line connection by drilling but will keep the option open to replace them. Any photos of the drilling location and procedures? Looks like I will have to clean and paint the calipers before I start taking things apart. I also like to paint high temp silver the rust prone surfaces of the rotor. Hopefully I can complete the project in one afternoon.

    I am impressed the brakes on the '03 model truck have lasted for 93,000 miles. These Tundra brakes should last for a really long time.
     
  5. Sep 20, 2012 at 6:45 AM
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    Grousehunter 12

    Grousehunter 12 Well-Known Member

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    I got 99,000 out of mine. I replaced all the brake hoses (front & rear) with stainless from Wheelers , for a little less than $120 . If I knew how smoothly this job goes I would have used the 13WL calipers you have and cut the backing plates. A buddy who has operated his own shop for over 30 years told me to bend the plates as little as possible as they cool the system.I didn't bend them enough and they howled like crazy , I took a big screwdriver and bent them just enough to not rub . Replace all your brake fluid , it takes five 12oz. bottles of Toyota brake fluid , part # 00475-1BF03. My shop owner friend suggested sticking with the Toyota fluid because of the seals in the system. To me the toughest part of the job might be replacing the hoses, make sure you have a good set of flare nut wrenches , I could see someone twisting the hard line or rounding the connections with standard wrenches. Enjoy your new brakes !
     
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  6. Sep 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM
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    TACO in SC

    TACO in SC [OP] TuRD

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  7. Sep 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM
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    SCSPerformance

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    That's a good writeup. The bolt that you see clamped in the vice, all you have to do is drill down the center of it about 1/16". That's enough for you to screw in the banjo bolt flush and tight. I would recommend you go ahead upgrade to SS front brake lines, but as Grousehunter mentioned be careful when you take off the old lines from the hardline.
     
  8. Sep 20, 2012 at 11:24 AM
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    Grousehunter 12

    Grousehunter 12 Well-Known Member

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    If you buy the Wheeler lines they come with a new banjo bolt that does not need to be drilled. I replaced all the brake hoses as the rear are only $34.75 ,my guess is you have factory hoses that are almost 10 years old and cracked. Stainless hoses give a much firmer petal feel.
     
  9. Sep 20, 2012 at 11:29 AM
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    SCSPerformance

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    I actually do have front and rear SS lines, but I drilled the bolt anyways:p. I didn't even bother testing it beforehand since it only took 5sec. to drill and another 5sec. to vacuum. The pedal is a little softer than before, but the braking was vastly improved.
     
  10. Sep 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM
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    98tacoma27

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    Some stuff. Not a lot, just some.
    Hmmm, I remember doing this with a member not too long ago on his first gen and for the life of me I don't remember drilling anything. :notsure: Maybe he was doing that when I was rebuilding the calipers.
     
  11. Sep 20, 2012 at 11:53 AM
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    Grousehunter 12

    Grousehunter 12 Well-Known Member

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    Bet my firmer petal feel came from replacing those old brakes that had 99k on them and that 10.5 year old brake fluid. Are they now firmer than they were when new ? I can't remember. They are worth every penny I spent on them . I see many ads for $99.99 per axle brake specials , with lifetime pad warranty. I consider my $400+ brake job a better buy.
     
  12. Sep 20, 2012 at 12:27 PM
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    SCSPerformance

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    This truck was bought brand new by my dad back in '02 and from the very beginning, the braking was subpar. I tried different pads, rotors, flushing the fluids over and over to see very minimal improvement throughout the years. Upgrading to SS lines made the pedals feel a lot firmer, but I still did not have any confidence in sudden braking situations. When I swapped in the Tundra components, I could feel the significant improvement right away. However, the pedal now feels softer. I would say it's a little softer than what it was when everything was stock.

    I'm wondering if it's possible to switch over to the Tundra MC. This would probably improve the brake pedal feel.
     
  13. Sep 20, 2012 at 1:42 PM
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    Grousehunter 12

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    I wonder if the S13WE calipers are better suited to the Tacoma master cylinder than the larger 13Wl , for the feel of the pedal ?
     
  14. Sep 20, 2012 at 2:00 PM
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    TACO in SC

    TACO in SC [OP] TuRD

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    What really matters is the piston diameter of the master cylinder. Do you know how the two units compare?
     
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  15. Sep 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 Professional Fluffer Moderator

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    You only need to drill factory banjo bolts. If he got the stainless lines from Wheelers, the banjo wheelers provides are shorter and do not require drilling.

    My factory MC on my taco is only 13/16. The tundra MC isn't going to help you at all (at least not the one on my Tundra....because it's also 13/16" bore and the brake lines are on the opposite side....I've looked).

    There are a couple of options you can do. Is your MC a 2 bolt or 4 bolt MC? If you have a 4 bolt, it's a little simpler and all you need is a MC from a T-100. They come in 1" and 1 1/16" bore sizes. Some other people have used a GM MC with an adapter. The MC is cheaper, but it requires you to either fab up or buy the adapter as well as brake line adapters. If you have a two bolt MC it's slightly more difficult. Best option I've read about is to swap out the brake booster with a dual diaphragm booster from a T100. It'll require a lot more fineness to get the booster to mate up to the brake pedal linkage, but then you are left with a booster that will accept the 1" bore MC from the T100
     
  16. Sep 20, 2012 at 3:52 PM
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    SCSPerformance

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    Thanks for the info Jason. That's very useful to know. I went through a similar situation with my mustang and I ended up replacing the MC, booster, and prop. valve from other year mustangs to get the feel just right.
     
  17. Sep 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM
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    TACO in SC

    TACO in SC [OP] TuRD

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    A master cylinder is nothing but a simple hydraulic pump.

    Installing a M/C with a larger piston will increase your volume and decrease your power. Your brake pedal will move a shorter distance but you will have to press it harder.

    Installing a M/C with a smaller diameter piston will yield the opposite effect. Less volume of brake fluid moved at a higher pressure resulting in your brake pedal moving a greater distance with less pressure from your leg.

    Remembering these rules will help you choose the correct M/C for your application.

    I still don't understanding the drilling of the banjo bolt. What is the mission and why? It it to shorten it, or leave that angled tip to seal against something? It'l probably be more obvious once I take things apart.
     
  18. Sep 20, 2012 at 5:54 PM
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    pittim

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    I bought the SS lines from Wheelers and used that banjo, thats why you don't remember any drilling :p
     
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  19. Sep 20, 2012 at 6:20 PM
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    Grousehunter 12

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    The Tundra caliper has a convex shaped surface about 3/8" inside the threaded hose fitting that the Tacoma caliper does not have . This will not allow the factory banjo bolt to seat without drilling . You will see the minute you screw the banjo into your caliper.
     
  20. Sep 20, 2012 at 8:47 PM
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    jberry813

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    You pretty much just reiterated my point. That's why I recommended a dual diaphragm booster. The single diaphragm 4 bolt booster CAN work and will make the brakes work better in terms of not requiring a double pump, but require more pedal force, but not nearly as well as a dual diaphragm with a larger diamater bore MC.

    Damn...I was right again.....
     

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