Turbo vs Supercharger

How is the 'exhaust' on a turbo powered vehicle a nightmare? And cost to make the turbo have the same powerband is expensive???.. all it takes is a little math.

 

Because the exhaust has to be plumbed up both sides of the engine to the top. All that heat in the wrong place.

Yes you can make it all fit but it's a nightmare plumbing job in my opinion. Unless you have dual turbos. If you have room in the engine compartment to sit it behind the engine yes but there is not much room on modern trucks and cars. Then if you want to go to a intercooler to gain reliability you just simply run out of room.

All these bends and systems are robbing power. Maybe not much but it all adds up. It has a habit of making your oil run way hotter then a supercharger would. Like it works great with a Diesel because the engine needs to run hot to get maximum engine life but it's counter productive on a gas engine.

If I had the choice I would go supercharger over turbo any day.

Like I already owned one on a car. Pain in the ass to work on the engine. Look at the newer Fords where you have to remove the cab to work on the turbo. Well you get what you pay for but I'll pass on the turbo.

Put it this way. Run full headers on a turbo. See the problem?

Run full headers on a SC. No problem.

 

Good post Trap....now I understand why VW and BMW are both going to (are) running dual turbo's on their diesel. Got the higher temps too but the dual turbo comment turned the light bulb on for me.....Dammmmmm we got some smart guys on this thread....

 

Stay NA and buy an actual muscle car/roadster.

People with the wrong tool for the job bug me.

 

s/c = linear power increse due to proportionate correlation of rpm and boost, turbo is more exponential due to the positive feedback effect. For off offroading a s/c charger woud be much more helpfull, for roadracing a turbo setup. Turbo set up would also cost you about 3 times as much (my guess, I have lots of turbo experience) due to plumbing (exhaust, intake), intercooler...etc etc...

 

Yes I can see the added cost for a turbo and I agree a turbo works great for the diesel because of th engine build in the extra metal. I drive a VW turbo diesel and it can be difficult to work on. Most VW dealers don't even know how to work on a diesel. So the expertise may be lacking in this area at the stealerships. Depends on how Toyota works there inservice training...and how smart the guys are in the training.

 

All i can say is that most of everyone here doesnt know anything about either s/c or turbo. I just read a bunch of dumb stuff...

 

Can you tell everyone here the "smart stuff?" I know I'm not a smart guy on any of this but alot of it sounds right!!!

 

This is a good place to start basic knowledge about Turbos and S/Cs:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm

 

Typically you see S/C's used on larger motors because they can handle the extra power it takes for belt driven air induction whereas smaller motors ie 4 cyl's mainly use turbo's as it is not used by the motors belt driven system and spools up by air injection (this of course is an example of non diesel motors).

Each has their pro's and cons of course, more working parts, heat, upgrades, uses etc so SC vs TC is a hard topic to cover unless you expand on your "uses" portion.

 

An RB in a tacoma

 

I run a turbo because I want far more power than the SC can deliver, I have a 2wd so I dont mind a bit of lag, and Im not offroading, just a street truck.

I couldnt find an SC that will make 23psi like I am making now...I will leave any SC'd Toyota far behind without any issues (except police), but for me I just want a street sleeper...

Apples and oranges......hard to compare them, because they in effect both make boost, however thats about as far as the similarities go.

I have an SC on my Camaro (67' with a 350 making 624bhp) but its a ProCharger centrifugal SC so its more or less a belt driven turbocharger, not like a traditional displacement SC. I will be going twin turbos sooner or later, I want more power than my current SC will make.

My Toyota 2RZ has a GT3076R ball bearing turbo, and I couldnt be happier, however it wasnt cheap by any means, especially if you want it done right.

Also the size of the engine makes a difference on the route you should take as well...

If I had a V6 for off-road, I would go the turbo route as well, the reason being is that it has enough torque down low for most things, but falls off quite hard on top, its just a matter of turbo size choice, the most important part of the build is the size of turbo you want to run. This will make the truck fun or a nightmare.

If a person knows what he/she is doing, a turbo can work fine for any application if matched, however I also understand the ease of installation and availability of warranty. So that means turbo is out of the question for most.

I love turbo because I understand them well and I am also a fabricator so I can make anything that is not offered in the aftermarket. Not to mention this is the route to take if you want to make big numbers..but its not a bolt on by any means..

This thread is beating a dead horse...

There is a lot more to know than what is in this thread, not to mention there is quite a lot of misinformation out there when it comes to forced induction. Plenty of "experts" that have never even had experience in the field like to give their input which is totally unfounded and they just post things that they have "heard" others say, sometimes its the blind leading the blind..careful what you absorb or you could be one of them.....

 

Including the last post. What too difficult to change the pulleys? You could run a stepper motor on a supercharger with a rpm feed back and it would work.

What the magic of exhaust gives it something? All your doing is cramming air down the intake. It don't need a turbo. You could match any power curve you wanted with a electric drive or pulleys. Try doing that with a turbo

http://www.best-price.com/search/la.../altk/Supercharger/cv/773895/koid/7001332086/

 

You guys are exceeding my meager maintenance intelligence! If I put something on what is the maint. required and what effect does it have on my engine in the long run....100K-200K+. Fabricator this and mechanic that...more than I understand or want to.....I just want it to work right and all the time...

 

SC you would have the belt to change once and awhile. On the TC well there should be really no maintenance but that is far from the case. All that heat takes it toll on other parts of a gas engine. The exhaust is way more complicated so pricey to replace. They also have a higher rate of failing catastrophically usually taking out the engine. The bearings simply don't last as long because of the heat. Also harder on the engine oil.

Heat is bad news. It heats the incoming air somewhat. Bad. It restricts the exhaust gasses, The valve seat temperature is much higher on a turbo than a SC that is a really bad thing on a gas engine but it's critical to have on a diesel engine, it keeps the diesel valves clean of carbon.. One other thing on a turbo is the exhaust is much more wet because of pressure changes and all the wet rots the exhaust down stream even faster. You should only run stainless steel with a turbo. Real stainless steel not that BS cheap crap.

For reliability getting rid of the heat and going with a liquid cooled intercooler the SC wins hands down. You are not dealing with hot exhaust gasses. You are not restricting the exhaust. The intake air is remaining cool. I'm sure they have set it up to be quite conservative on the power curve for reliability. It's a truck not a race car. Remember you really want all the power up at the top end when pulling your load at 100 MPH. Like it's kind of stupid on a truck. It's got a governor remember.

If you want a race car build a race car. If you want a truck that can smoke that car don't complain about the gas mileage and high maintenance. When was the last time you saw a rail car with a turbo? Don't think I've ever seen one.

Do you own research. Look here for posts of people having problems with there SC. Can't say I've seen any. Go to a different forum where the gas engine uses a turbo instead search for threads people are having problems with there turbo. Lots of those engine problems will also be obscure because they might not be associated with the actual cause.

Kind of like here with manual and auto trans. Standard rules the world and auto is for whimps and it's not actually a true truck with a auto. But if you read the posts it seems the standard trans have all the whining going on about odd problems. There is very few threads here about auto transmissions have problems.

 

What are you arguing here? you're not going to find a SC system for these toyota engines that will push 20+ psi efficiently.

 

Well that guy was just going on an on about modifying.(Speed Freek, look up a few posts ) Like if I wanted more boost pressure I'd just change the damn pulleys. Everything is possible if you don't give a shit about warranty.

 

well "that guy" has some of the most experience on these toyota forums..

Go to customtacos if you want to learn something..

 

changing pulleys arent going to give you that much on power. i mean sure. 15psi with the only pulley you can find. 25psi with the push of a button. or 21 psi. or 15. i mean the turbo has more positives than negatives. sure the heat. but if you dont recall you v6 runners. STS turbo has a rear mount turbo. so are you worried about your bed melting?? i mean super charger puts more a strain on the engine. i think ppl that run superchargers are lazy. easy power.

 

Im impressed with my supercharger is able to get me 19mpgs.