UCA's and Alignment

I went to alignment shop and they said that 0 camber, 0 toe, and 2.4 caster were out of manufacture specs. I asked him about the specs above and he had a couple of comments. Spec was for .5 toe because on a rear wheel drive truck, the force is to push the tires apart. So by having a slight toe the effect at speed will be 0 toe. I can't remember his comment about having positive camber but he ended up giving me positive camber to spec. It actually kind of bugs me having positive camber having come from sports cars with negative camber.

What is the reason for trucks and positive camber anyway?

 

I would go to a different shop if you can. I've had to walk away from a couple alignment shops because the technician thought he knew everything and wasn't willing to listen. If you want 0 toe and camber then you should get 0 toe and camber. Make them do it right. You are spending your $$$$

 

The problem nowadays is that its hard to find places that do good alignments. Most places dont take the time to really make sure everything is right. They just do the bare minimum to get you out the door and next car in...

 

I have worked at an auto shop for 4+ years now and I am the 'alignment guy' there. Some information on here is correct and some is not..

Unless you are driving on a perfectly flat road, you don't want the same Caster numbers on each side. If you haven't noticed the road is crowned across the middle so that puddles do not occur in the center of the road. Your truck is fighting that going down the road so adding more positive Caster to the RF will essentially counter that 'pull' to the right and make the truck drive straight.

I can go into more detail on that above and/or if you have any other alignment questions feel free to send me a PM!


My credit? - My boss is a Whelen Modified racecar driver who builds his own racecars from the ground up in his fabrication shop at home so I guess I have been taught well.

 

Looking for some input from the experts on here...

Truck: 2015 DCSB 4x4 TRD OR, 265/75/16 BFG AT KO2's

Lift:
FR: 2.5" Eibach/ToyTec 521600 coil, Bilstein 5100 set to 0.0" (1/2" top plate spacer option)
RR: ~2.0" ToyTec/Deaver AAL

Plan to install my lift next weekend. I want to avoid aftermarket UCA's at all costs.

The ToyTec kit I ordered includes the 1/2" top plate spacer for the full 3.0" of lift. My question is should I opt to leave this out, in order to be able to get the caster closer to where it needs to be? I do a lot of highway driving so I don't want alot of drift. What should I target in terms of custom alignment numbers?

Also how much rake do you think I'll end up with if I just do the 2.5" coil, and 2.0" AAL on my '15 TSB leafs?

 

Jc - for the sake of space saving, (and because breakfast is minutes away from the table), leave the spacer out.

My experience with lifting these trucks is my own, from 2001, 2008, 2006 and 2012.

With the exception of that 2001, my trucks from 2006 up near the 3 inch mark have required aftermarket UCAs to achieve solid alignment numbers.

The rake question is subject to the springs, and for me, has varied a great deal based on age, haul usage history and semi consistent factory spring rates.

 

Thanks for the input.

Anyone care to chime in with an attainable caster target for the alignment shop? Given the 265/75/16 and a 2.5" front lift coil?

 

Why is such a battle with the dealership to improve alignment specs? I just spent 30 minutes trying to explain to their techs why I wanted the camber adjusted closer to 0 and to get as much caster without going over 2.4. They acted all pissed and inconvenienced that I wanted better specs after setting my 5100s to .85. Is it hard for techs to dial things in?

 

The stealerships only do what they WANT I have never had luck telling a dealership of any kind what I wanted and actually got it. I feel as though they don't want to put in any more effort than what is just satisfactory. I am sure there are some awesome techs out there but I tend to think those ones own their own shops and have more of a love for what they do rather than the "it pays the bills" attitude.

 

Huh , I went into my dealership with LR UCA's , told the tech how they were adjusted and what numbers I wanted and he let me come into the bay while he did the alignment to make sure I was happy with how everything was done , hit the numbers I wanted perfectly

 

I have an alignment appointment tomorrow. I'm hoping they will let me do the same. It was just hard to convince them to adjust the current specs.

 

Must be a Canadian thing no dealerships around my area are like that. They all stay within factory spec's on everything and that's it.

 

Good info, thanks for the write up. Just a couple of questions. I'm looking at lifting with 5100's and 885 coils which should put me around 2.5" in the front. How bad could I expect the driving to be after the lift but before the alignment? Unfortunately where I live there is only one place to have an alignment done and I may prefer to have it done elsewhere which would include a 45 minute drive on the highway. Would it be unsafe to drive that far prior to alignment?

Second question is I've heard a number of people talking about their lift settling after having been installed for a couple of months... If this happens do you need to have another alignment done? Do the 885x coils settle or should I expect it to remain the same as when initially installed? As far as I know nobody in canada offers lifetime alignments.

 

How much will these numbers vary with coilovers set at 2" of lift? Is it more dependent on tires size or lift size? Currently set around 2"'s of lift and running 32" tires.

 

Much better

 

I'd like to share my experiences with upper control arms and lift kits. I have had five Tacomas, all lifted. 3 of those were 2nd gen.

My first second gen was a 2005 4 banger 5 speed Access cab 4x4. The day I brought it home I ordered 2.5" front spacers, 1" rear blocks, P rated 265/75/16 Geolanders on AR Mojave wheels. I drove that setup with no issues to about 40k miles when the tires were in pretty tough shape. My backend was starting to sag a little so I bought an AAL kit from fat bobs garage and installed 5100's all the way around with the fronts set at 2.5". The 5100's were a huge improvement over the stock setup. I also bought another set of Geolanders 265/75/16 but E rated. Those tires took me to about ~120K miles when I bought a set of KO's in 265/75/16. Somewhere along the way I had swapped out the rear leaf packs because of sagging for a set of wheelers HD's if I recall correctly. In 2009 I traded that truck in with a 180k on a 2009 DCLB TRD Sport in Pyrite Mica. The KO's had 60k miles and still looked great. I never had UCA on that truck and got 70k+ out of a set of tires with no dribvability complaints. I also never replaced a single front end bushing, joint, or bearing. Just the 5100's and brakes.

The day I bought the 09 DCLB home I installed the spacers which I had from the last truck and butchered the old leaf packs up to make an AAL for the new truck. I also had a set of 265/70/17 KO's installed on factory sport wheels with a fresh alignment. I drove that setup to 65k miles and the tires were getting thin. At that time I installed a full OME kit, 885's up front with trim packers, Dakars in the rear, Light UCA, and Nitrocharger shocks all the way around. I also installed a new set of KO's with a fresh alignment. The OME setup provided the best riding Tacoma I had ever had. I drove that setup about 25k miles and started noticing cupping on the front tires. Mind you I rotate about every 8-10k when I change my oil. Shortly thereafter the truck failed inspection for faulty upper ball joints. Here in Massachusetts driving with a failed safety inspection is a moving violation so the truck was parked for a week while Light Racing sent me my FREE replacement set of ball joints. I installed them, payed about $80 for an alignment and was on my way again. Those tires lasted about 35k miles before they needed replacing and I installed another set of KO's. Around 130k miles I started getting suspension noise up front and was noticing tire wear again. This time I jacked the truck up and noticed that the bushings in the control arms were shot. At that point I took the Light UCA off and threw them in the trash and reinstalled my factory UCA. I also removed the trim packers and paid another $80 for an alignment. The truck drove exactly the same. At 140k I needed tires again 40k on the KO's so I bought another set of KO's. I drove the truck from there to 200k so 60k on those KO's and traded it in on a 2012 DCLB Sport TRD in white. Aside from the Light UCA and a set of wheel bearings I never had to touch a joint etc in the front end. The tires still had decent (legal) tread.

The day I brought the 2012 home I ordered a full OME kit, 884's up front, Dakars, and Nitro Charger Sport shocks. I installed the 884's with the trim spacers I had pulled out of the 09 and also removed the 3rd leaf in the Dakars. I topped it off with a new set of P rated Coooper AT3's in 265/70/17 (trying to conser MPG's at $4/gal). I drove that setup to 55k miles when the tires started to get a little thin. I had also purchased an ARE cap so the Dakars ahad settled a bit and I wanted some rake back so I pulled the trim packers and installed 245/75/17 KO's. I just turned 100k and the KO's still look great.

So here is my 2 cents on UCA. Unless you are going beyond 2.5" they are a waste of money. I have driven a few hundred thousand miles in three trucks without them and zero issues with drivability or tire wear. My alignments always came back in spec albeit on the periphery. I drive hard 80-85mph on the interstate. I have been all over North America hunting and for work, California, Northern Alberta, Texas, Florida, all the way to Hudson Bay. I have driven on some of the crappiest gravel roads Canada has to offer in the fall and spring as well as the 80+MPH interstates in the midwest US. The only truck I had with aftermarket UCA had nothing but problems. My tires wore out quickly, and I was plagued with ailing parts, and multiple alignments. The exact reason I drive a Toyota is so that I am not plagued with ailing parts. So my advice is unless you go above 2.5" forget the UCA. If you do go above 2.5" be prepared to spend nearly what you paid for the entire lift on a good set. I researched getting some camburgs for a short while but there was some skepticism about getting much better alignment #'s with them. Aside from the Camburgs there is little for affordable UCA options that look to be of good quality. I have even seen a thread here where the welds broke on a guys Light UCA. Your mileage may vary, and if you are running 33's with high offset wheels the need for more castor may be a bigger issue. Anyhow, I see a lot of threads on here about UCA adn "what are your #'s" I am going to stick with real world experience and lots of miles to back it up.

 

I have OME 886 coils and nitro chargers up front, 6k mi after an alignment on new tires I have severe cupping on both front tires almost 1/4 inch in some places. For now I just rotated the tires. I have some suspension noise from the front but can't locate it. Everywhere I read stock the uca is fine with the OME kit. I'm a little lost as to what to do to fix my cupping problem. If I'm a little light on the weight ratings for the 886 coil would that cause me to get unsat alignment or is there another problem I'm not seeing?

 

just recently threw on some SPC UCA's after dealing with less than ideal (1.4*) caster after my 1.75in lift in the front.

Took my truck to a guy who only does alignments and front end work, been doing it for 29 years. He spent a solid hour n a half dialing everything in. Literally 3.43 and 3.45* of caster on both sides, -.41 and .42* of camber and .1 on both sides of toe, Exactly what i wanted. Best 90 i ever spent on alignment, ill never go back to a wham bam thank you maam shop like big brand for an alignment, when 30 bucks more gets me proper treatment.

 

I have a 6" lift w/35's with original UCA's. Here's my alignment today. It's all green but do you see the need to upgrade an UCA? This was done at a stealership but had no issues and did it quickly..