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union tribune: Ariz. immigration bill may have broad implications

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Marioso, Apr 22, 2010.

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  1. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:09 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    The strict immigration enforcement bill that Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer could sign this week is likely to have repercussions beyond the state, not only in terms of political precedent, but in shifts it might prompt in the immigrant population.
    The bill would make it a misdemeanor to lack proper immigration documents in Arizona, requiring people to carry proof of legal status. It also would require police officers to check immigration status if they have “reasonable suspicion” that someone is in the country illegally, and allow people to sue to force police agencies to comply.
    Legal challenges are expected if the bill becomes law, but even the success it has had so far could have a ripple effect in other states, including California.
    Illegal immigration has become a high-profile topic in this year’s race for California governor. In 1994, the California election was dominated by Proposition 187, a ballot initiative that sought to bar illegal immigrants from public social services, including public education. The measure was eventually struck down in court.
    Proposals like the Arizona bill could make the electoral debate here even more intense.
    “We could see anything happen, particularly in the context of the gubernatorial race,” said David Shirk, director of the Trans-Border Institute and a political science professor at the University of San Diego. “It’ll be interesting to see how the gubernatorial race drives the debate on immigration.”
    Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner has claimed that Republican gubernatorial rival Meg Whitman supports amnesty for illegal immigrants, which the former eBay CEO denies. Poizner, who once backed Bush administration policies that would have provided a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, has recently called for laws restricting services for illegal immigrants, but has not proposed Arizona-like legislation.
    A legislative measure similar to Arizona’s may be less likely in California, where Republicans are a minority in the Capitol. But the immigration debate in California has played out not only at the legislative and state initiative levels, but in local laws. For example, in 2006, the Escondido City Council passed a law that attempted to penalize landlords who rented to illegal immigrants. The city eventually reconsidered following a lawsuit.
    Police organizations are divided on the Arizona bill. Proponents say the measure is an enforcement tool. Those who oppose it say it amounts to state-sanctioned racial profiling.
    The bill is the second tough-on-immigration measure Arizona has approved in recent years. In January 2008, a law took effect mandating employers in the state to use the federal government’s E-Verify program to check the legal status of new employees.
    If the new bill becomes law, it’s likely that Arizona will become even less attractive for those there illegally, said Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C., organization that advocates restricting immigration.
    “Some of them will go home, some who aren’t here yet will decide not to come, and some will move to San Diego or elsewhere,” Krikorian said. “From Arizona’s perspective, if people are moving instead to Georgia or Minnesota or California, that is not really their problem anymore.”
    But the Grand Canyon State may become less attractive for some U.S. citizens and legal residents of color, too.
    “Definitely, people are saying, ‘I want to move away from Arizona,’ ” said Isabel Garcia, an attorney in Tucson with deep Mexican-American roots.
    Garcia said she was outraged about what she considers to be the profiling aspect of the bill. She said any American with brown skin could now be viewed with suspicion.
    “They are going to decide what an American is?” Garcia said. “I’m a fourth-generation Arizonan, my kids are fifth generation, my grandchildren are sixth. And we are going to be subjected to this?”
    Not all Mexican-American Arizonans are complaining, however. Al Garza, a former leader of the now-disbanded Minuteman Civil Defense Corps — another reaction to Arizona’s human smuggling traffic — said he thought it was “totally great.”
    “The laws are in the books,” Garza said. “They just haven’t been enforced.”
    There is little question that the Arizona bill could make life more complicated. Rosalva Romero, an organizer with the Coalición de Derechos Humanos, a human rights group in Tucson, pointed out that in Arizona, as in neighboring states, mixed-status families are common. For example, a father and his children might have documents, she said, while their mother does not.
    Romero said that many immigrants she speaks with, particularly those without documents, have talked of returning to their native countries or moving to another state. She said she is advising them to stay put.
    “If you move, where would you go?” Romero said. “If the law passes here in Arizona, there will be other laws. It will not only happen here in Arizona. They will be affected elsewhere, in the long run.”
    It’s most likely that ripple-effect legislation will be seen in states that have had an influx of immigrants in recent years, Shirk said. And as with the Arizona measure, the economy will play a role.
    “Right now, when you look at the economy and you have 9 million people unemployed and an estimated 12 million undocumented in the country, it creates a sense, real or imagined, that undocumented immigrants are taking over, in jobs that should theoretically go to Americans,” Shirk said. “The border is expanding now to places that are not traditional immigrant-receiving states. For those places, the phenomenon of immigration will require a difficult adjustment, and that difficult adjustment will lead to those kinds of reactions.”
    The political climate in Arizona that led to the bill’s passage this month was affected by factors that include the economy, Arizona’s status as the southern border’s biggest entry point for illegal immigration, and a dramatic growth in the state’s foreign-born population, said Judith Gans, of the University of Arizona’s Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy. According to a report she authored, the state’s foreign-born population grew by more than 200 percent between 1990 and 2004.
    “Since the border fence went up in California, the rate of migration through Arizona has increased, so Arizona is both a funnel and an end point,” Gans said.







    if this shit hits CA, yall better stay out the sun!
     
  2. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:23 AM
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    Kitty

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    I hope it passes and I hope it is enforced. I also hope it spreads to other states.
     
  3. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:24 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    fuck that, what a hassel having to carry my passport bc im hispanic
     
  4. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:30 AM
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    amaes

    amaes Cuz Stock Sucks

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    x2 I live in AZ. Sad to see this but Most of the people here are older and brought up conservative so it makes sense why they are doing it. They call America the land of opportunity and the land of the free yet they don't give people the chance. Unless you are 100% native american everyone is from an Immigrant family. Idk I guess i see it different because I'm hispanic.
     
  5. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:35 AM
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    Kitty

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    A passport, no. A drivers license, yes. My dear man, it is easy to tell you are not illegal. You are typing (and I am guessing speak) English. But I do not wish to get into a debate. I was just stating my heartfelt opinion.
     
  6. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:37 AM
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    Tillers_Rule

    Tillers_Rule ......................

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    Papers please
     
  7. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:42 AM
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    Wolfman

    Wolfman Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I think you are taking what the "media" is feeding you with too little critical thought. I am quite conservative, and have no problem at all with LEGAL immigration into this country, nor do I wish poorly of those who are desperate to find a better life for themselves. That said, you absolutely cannot have uncontrolled immigration into this country. You will have the net result of collapsing the social and economic system in place due to overwhelming the states and countries resources. You see this happen when refugees flood neighboring countries during wars.

    Illegals have the net result of LOWERING wages in the country, as they in many instances have to be paid under the table to be kept off of the radar. This opens the door for the modern equivalent of slavery, and reduces those opportunities you mentioned. As we are a nation with laws, you do not reward illegal behavior by making illegals legit by decree.

    If you want to come into my country, then this is fine. I simply ask that this be done following the laws currently in place, and seeking to learn English, so that you are capable of communicating with the rest of society. I view learning the language as something to do out of respect for the country that has welcomed you in, and I would do the same if I were to immigrate to another country that spoke another language.
     
  8. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:42 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    no debate.

    Make it a misdemeanor to lack proper immigration documents in Arizona, requiring people to have proof of legal status

    ^^^ im sure a DL wont be OK. plus i know plenty of illegals who speak,read, and write in eglish. so that says nothing.

    again no debate. i just think thats pretty fucked up.

    my friend is from south africa, shes illegal haha, i hope they pull her over, sike
     
  9. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:42 AM
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    Kitty

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    We aren't talking about LEGAL immigrants though. We are talking ILLEGAL immigrants. It is called illegal for a reason. If you steal that is illegal, and you are prosecuted. So if you are here illegally then you should be prosecuted.
     
  10. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:43 AM
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    Wolfman

    Wolfman Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that pretty much EVERY other country you visit has the same requirement, right?
     
  11. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:45 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    i agree w the learning english out of respect. i remember back in highschool, groups would ditch school and march against immigration laws, they would carry mexico flags. i always thought that if u wanna be here so bad, wave the american flag. and dont stop marching as soon as 330pm hits (schools oveR)
     
  12. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:48 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    if hispanics have to carry proof of legal status, everyone else should. im a citizen, i wouldnt wanna carry a passport everyday and say one day i forget it, just like i forget my phone and wallet. ima a be charged w a misdemeanor?

    im 21, young and dumb. this is how im seeing it now. i dont know enough to debate. i want to learn as well so i might ask questions on here or state things, if i need to be corrected, i appreciate it
     
  13. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:48 AM
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    T@co_Pr3runn3r

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    The racial profiling comments are pure limp bullshit. It's not racial profiling if they ask everybody. I would be thrilled to be asked just to know somebody cares if I belong here. I bet there'd be a lot more people willing to move TO Arizona if they enforced this than there would be leaving because of it. I know I'd be tempted if they put concern for legal citizens before lawbreaking noncitizens nonrights. AZ has been my hero in all this ass backwards immigration nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:51 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    but lets be real. if your white or black, you think the cops will feel required to ask you for proof of legal status?
     
  15. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:53 AM
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    Kitty

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    :amen:

    Any government issued identification should be accepted. Drivers license, state issued ID card, military ID card, passport, birth certificate.

    I worked at a police department for 4 years. We had at least one occation where we stopped a vehicle for speeding and no one had drivers licenses. No big deal, we ran their SSN, no mathces. So we ran their name DOB. An ICE alert came up on them, and an ICE unit was dispatched. Point of this little story? If they wouldn't have been doing something wrong to start with, then they wouldn't have been pulled over. If they would have had a DL, then they would have been written a ticket and been on their way.

    BTW they were Indian.
     
  16. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:57 AM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    ill co-sign that, if your fucking up, u dont wnana be here.
     
  17. Apr 22, 2010 at 11:58 AM
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    Zombie Runner

    Zombie Runner Are these black helicopters for me?

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    I dont think illegals can get a drivers license, so I betcha a DL would work, which you should have with you all the time anyways. Ever heard of something called "failure to identify"? If I was to fail to show a cop my ID and my identity couldnt be verified I would take a trip to the station...

    When I was in mexico I made for damn sure I had my passport on me at all times unless i was in my resort.
     
  18. Apr 22, 2010 at 12:00 PM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    if thats the case, why isnt JUST a DL ok at the border crossings?
     
  19. Apr 22, 2010 at 12:01 PM
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    T@co_Pr3runn3r

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    Why not? Russian mafia illegals are white. Black muslim extremists come from various points around the globe. IF THEY ASK EVERYBODY THEN NO ONE CAN USE THE RACE CARD AS AN EXCUSE. Thank you.

    edit - And the cops will feel required to do so when their superiors convey that it is their job and duty to do so...even though it already is based on the existing laws. I being a caucasian would feel reverse-profiled upon if I wasn't asked.
     
  20. Apr 22, 2010 at 12:03 PM
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    Marioso

    Marioso [OP] El Pitufo

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    eh u know what theres gonna be a way around it, u know. sure theyll say theyre asking everyone, but at the same time we ALL know who the aim is at. noones gonna play the race card, but at the same time lets not be blind
     
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