Untracked time off. Salaried? Do you have this?

Our company just told us they are switching salary employees from Paid Time Off to Untracked Time Off at the start of the new year. That means we no longer accrue vacations days, don't have to submit requests for days off or keep track off PTO balances. We just take time off as needed. It's very strange.

I admit I'm very cynical when it comes to large companies who say they are doing something just for our benefit, as their messaging to us indicates. That's just not how they think or operate. What do they get from this?

I know they will be saving FTEs as it takes a lot of time to administer PTO.

There's always a mass of people who have to take a lot of time off at the end of the year around the holidays, or they lose vacation days. Use it or lose it, as it's called. Maybe they think that won't happen now?

Conversely, there are several states who's laws say vacation days, once given, are considered deferred compensation so they can't be taken away. I'm in one of those states. At the end of the year I get paid for whatever vacation days I didn't use. I don't think they like that, so this is another benefit for the company.

Lastly, I did some research after it was announced and found the prevailing theory (through studies) is that employees actually take less time off with this system.

Anyway, anybody here work someplace where this is the policy? What do you think?

 

So do you accrue Untracked time off?

This is new to me

 

Smells of BS.

It also means that they don't have to pay out accrued time when you quit, and it's one less benefit to negotiate during performance review.

Whatever vacation you had this year, I would make it a point to take one extra week next year.

 

My wife is under a similar system, but you definitely have to request the time off (unless it is for sick time). So it's not like you can just take unlimited time off.

I've been curious if one of the benefits to the employer is no longer needing to carry the accrued liability on their books for PTO that is just sitting there, waiting to be used. Where I'm at, that used to be over a million dollar liability on the books. Not sure if they'd be required to put something on the books, or just ... NOT. *shrugs*

 

This sort of thing became common in big technology companies of Silicon Valley and is now spreading to other companies.

How well it goes will all come down the culture fostered by your company's management. At one company I worked for that had a system like this, management was supportive of people taking 15 -20 non-sick days per year and it generally worked. It was less stressful than the traditional system of accruing sick time and PTO. In other environments, it's understood that there is theoretically unlimited time off, but you had better not take more than a couple of days per year. It can be much worse than a traditional system because at least when you're accruing time you can always argue that it's yours to use and you have data to back you up. Make sure your company is like the former and not the latter if they are implementing this kind of system, or find a different place to work if you can.

 

Never heard of what you are describing.

So what's the cap? I mean maybe just take a month off to travel, then call in sick for a week or so, see how that works out.

And systems can easily track all kinds of time off, no admin of significance is being saved.

There has to be more detail to the story.

 

My Dad has this at his work, he said people take less time off now since they switched to that. Every situation is different tho, maybe it will be a good thing @op

 

Not sure how 'understood ' would stand in a court case on the topic. And I can't imagine that not happening at some point.

 

There is no cap. "How that works out" is usually dependent on if you are actually doing your job. As long as performance is good and you are doing what's needed the idea is it's ok to take time off. Working somewhere there is redundancy this is much easier, but if you are the only person that can do XYZ... yeah... taking a month off is probably gonna be MUCH tougher to get approved.

 

I don’t have that myself, but that’s what my father has had for most of what I can remember. He’s in software sales.

We didn’t take a ton of vacations or even a yearly family trip growing up, but it allowed him a different type of flexibility for sure.
Ie. He could pretty much take any afternoon or morning off and go ride dirtbikes with me, or take a Friday off to go on a weekend trip with the family - obviously if that time didn’t collide with an important internal meeting or client meeting etc…

larger trips like a week long vacay he would get approved still and set up things beforehand obviously, but smaller breaks like 1/2 days or a day he could almost spontaneously take.

To me, it’s seems nice how flexible and easy it is to do smaller trips. That said, I have never had that pay structure before, I don’t know the intricacies

 

This is the reason a lot of companies are switching to "unlimited" PTO or "use or it or lose it" schemes. Accrued PTO is required to be itemized as a liability on the books. I'm skeptical of unlimited PTO schemes, especially if the company culture doesn't encourage people to take time off. If I were to interview with a company with unlimited PTO I'd want to ask what the average number of days taken off is to see how unlimited it actually is.

 

I've heard it's highly recommended during interview to ask that question about average number of days used.

 

Could this happen? One day you have nice upper management position at twitter then a week later you are working the line building Teslas in Shanghai.

 

No, there's no accrual. There's no record of time off. It's "untracked". Hard to wrap your head around it.

Yes, that is another upside for the company I read about. Doing this allows them to skirt the laws of a few states who says it's delayed compensation that can't be taken away. There hasn't been any case law that has challenged this yet that I found.

The company policy will be that if you take more than 4 consecutive weeks off in a row your salary will stop. Other than that, take what you want. The language they used was something like "your an adult and as long as you perform your job well... etc". They absolutely said you do not have to request time off, just take it. My manager wants us to just let her know when were out of office so she knows not to reach out for something, or knows when she can reach out. I think this could be hell for those who have bad management, but I have the best manager I've ever had in my working life. I set up a shared calendar in Outlook for our team to input their time off, as a courtesy.

And yes, there is a lot of financial liability they will no longer have when there is no time on the books.

I mentioned in my reply above, I can see it going either way, depending on management. I'm lucky in that regard. I just hope Elon doesn't show an interest in our company!

No cap, just can't take more than 4 weeks straight w/out having your pay stopped. The message is, take the time you need, but make sure you do your job well.

Really hard to wrap my head around this. I was told by my manager early, then it was announced on our team call. It was met with silence, followed by confusion and questions about what does this really mean. My manager was a little surprised that everyone wasn't excited right off the bat, but frankly, we don't really trust the C-suite. Like some of the replies here, it was like "whaaaat does this mean", "I don't think I understand what you are saying" kind of thing.

Time will tell.

 

Gotcha. Starting to make a bit more sense now...... I don't like it though

 

I have been on this model for two years now and I can say that it’s nice but for professional people who care about their job usually are less likely to over use time off, because they care and also enjoy their job/career. It’s stated in the handbook as Unlimited PTO with supervisor’s approval, which could become a situation if superiors are petty and don’t plan for your time off.

I personally have had as many as 7 weeks combined pto/sick down to 2 weeks paid off maximum. 7 weeks was crazy because we still had to have 95% billable hours in a year to fully qualify for bonus which means you were expected to work 45-50/ week anyway. Two weeks is not enough for anyone in my opinion, my family expects us to take a 1 week trip with them on each side, and so we don’t get to do many fun trips otherwise if we only get two weeks.

Had my powerball numbers hit I would have had 52 weeks PTO for the rest of my life.

 

I always remember working for any company, there are no free lunches to be had. There has to be some financial advantage for the company or it wouldn't be implemented. I'm guessing they are hoping or encouraging minimal time off with the hope that those "use it or lose it" will have "lost it" and those that didn't have a planned vacation or needed time off wouldn't take.

What happens with short term/long term disability? Are you still covered after 4 weeks if say you needed surgery or whatnot? And how about having a kid, do they treat FMLA the same?

 

Hm, it seems like this would depend on the employer and employee both operating in good faith. Like people said above it could either be a blessing or a curse.

 

Salary 30 years. Have not heard of this but here is my situation.

vacation / time off paid is accrued and you can negotiate when you are hired. I’m at six weeks / year.

And, I can basically take any personal time during the day as I see fit. Do I? No not much. But is nice for errands and Dr. stuff.

I still do about 45/50 hours a week regardless.